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re: Will we look like fools if the administration keeps spouting off about Ukraine
Posted on 2/19/14 at 2:46 pm to Ghostfacedistiller
Posted on 2/19/14 at 2:46 pm to Ghostfacedistiller
quote:
Neither Obama or Kerry seem to realize that when you take a position on the international stage, if you are not willing to back up those words, the people will not take you seriously anymore.
It's true in pretty much any business. It's just neither Kerry or Obama have every been in the real world.
Or Dick Cheney?
2
Posted on 2/19/14 at 2:47 pm to LSURussian
This is really a complement for you. I always search out your posts on an issue because they are so well thought out and written. Thanks for the insight on this.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 2:50 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
Or Dick Cheney?
Cheney way well have been guilty of the same thing. I will refersh myself on the Georgia situation tonight but today I would like to discuss this current and ongoing event.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 2:58 pm to DanTiger
I don't see that the Obama admin has drawn any lines or done anything unusual in this lose/lose situation. No American administration is going to actually get into a conflict with Russia over the Ukraine and no American admin would sit by and not issue some sort of finger wagging/sanction response.
What we know about Russia is that it is a thugocracy and it's very dangerous and we are going to try to deal with them diplomatically as it makes no sense to take it to the next level.
What we know about Russia is that it is a thugocracy and it's very dangerous and we are going to try to deal with them diplomatically as it makes no sense to take it to the next level.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 2:59 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
I don't remember every little detail, but I did remember that when tensions were getting high and Russia was about to take their capital, we sent our SOS to the city that was fixing to be taken over. Essentially daring Russia to try us. Not to mention the missile shield Bush fought so long to get put around Russia. I think Obama scraped it though, not sure though.
from: World Socialist Web Site:
LINK
"Fearing direct geopolitical confrontation with the US, however, Moscow did not decide to formally recognize the independence of these two regions. Instead, in April, a decision was made to begin full-scale economic collaboration with them
Another indication of the United States’ determination to support Georgia is last week’s visit to Tbilisi by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. Within the framework of this visit, which was linked with the signing in the Czech Republic of an agreement to build elements of American anti-missile defense, Rice declared that “frankly, some of the things that the Russians did over the last couple of months added to tensions in the region.”
The American Secretary of State also said that admitting Georgia to the Membership Action Plan (MAP) for NATO would help regulate the frozen conflicts in Abkhazia and South Ossetia, “therefore the USA will try to add Georgia to the MAP.”
If this decision is made—which would be in December of this year—for the first time since the end of the “Cold War,” the world will confront the danger of direct military confrontation between Russia, which as before maintains a powerful arsenal of nuclear weapons, and NATO."
from: World Socialist Web Site:
LINK
"Fearing direct geopolitical confrontation with the US, however, Moscow did not decide to formally recognize the independence of these two regions. Instead, in April, a decision was made to begin full-scale economic collaboration with them
Another indication of the United States’ determination to support Georgia is last week’s visit to Tbilisi by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. Within the framework of this visit, which was linked with the signing in the Czech Republic of an agreement to build elements of American anti-missile defense, Rice declared that “frankly, some of the things that the Russians did over the last couple of months added to tensions in the region.”
The American Secretary of State also said that admitting Georgia to the Membership Action Plan (MAP) for NATO would help regulate the frozen conflicts in Abkhazia and South Ossetia, “therefore the USA will try to add Georgia to the MAP.”
If this decision is made—which would be in December of this year—for the first time since the end of the “Cold War,” the world will confront the danger of direct military confrontation between Russia, which as before maintains a powerful arsenal of nuclear weapons, and NATO."
Posted on 2/19/14 at 3:02 pm to LSURussian
quote:Great post!
Here is how it will happen....
"And it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard, and it's a hard
It's a hard rain's a-gonna fall"
Posted on 2/19/14 at 3:06 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
If you think that Putin would be pulling this stuff with Bush and Chaney your deluding yourself.
Note that Chaney made no mention of "red lines". His public response was measured and calm.
And other pressure would be applied behind the scenes to the Russians. Maybe some loans might not be approved by the World Bank, or some other type of economic sanctions could be "promised".
Oh, and your claiming that in '08 when the Bush Administration was on its way out, it was supposed to publicly escalate tensions with Russia? Imagine the howls coming from the Left. All outgoing administrations are careful about what they leave on the plate for an incoming one.
I'm sure Obama will be different though. He simply doesn't care.
Note that Chaney made no mention of "red lines". His public response was measured and calm.
And other pressure would be applied behind the scenes to the Russians. Maybe some loans might not be approved by the World Bank, or some other type of economic sanctions could be "promised".
Oh, and your claiming that in '08 when the Bush Administration was on its way out, it was supposed to publicly escalate tensions with Russia? Imagine the howls coming from the Left. All outgoing administrations are careful about what they leave on the plate for an incoming one.
I'm sure Obama will be different though. He simply doesn't care.
This post was edited on 2/19/14 at 3:19 pm
Posted on 2/19/14 at 3:08 pm to TigerAlum1982
quote:I'm not sure if you're serious, but in case you are, thanks!
This is really a complement for you. I always search out your posts on an issue because they are so well thought out and written. Thanks for the insight on this.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 3:19 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:Thank you! Thank you! I'll be here all week! Try the veal!
Here is how it will happen....
Great post!
Posted on 2/19/14 at 3:26 pm to JEAUXBLEAUX
quote:
Kerry's Vietnam service doesn't count?
In my mind, yes. That is precisely what I was alluding to.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 3:28 pm to LSURussian
quote:
Here's how it will happen...Great post!
Probably did not make it clear earlier, but "ditto".
Posted on 2/19/14 at 3:45 pm to DanTiger
quote:
Cheney way well have been guilty of the same thing. I will refersh myself on the Georgia situation tonight but today I would like to discuss this current and ongoing event.
Look, I'm not trying to derail the discussion to Cheney, I only brought him up to help answer your question in the OP:
quote:
Will we look like fools
When I see this, I ask myself, "has something similar happened in the past, and if it did, do we look like fools now for it?"
If we don't look like fools now for some similar activity we engaged in in the past, then I find it hardly likely that we will look like fools in the future for our activities now.
If we weren't fools then, then we shouldn't be seen as fools now - unless there is a double standard.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 3:49 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
When I see this, I ask myself, "has something similar happened in the past, and if it did, do we look like fools now for it?"
If we don't look like fools now for some similar activity we engaged in in the past, then I find it hardly likely that we will look like fools in the future for our activities now.
If we weren't fools then, then we shouldn't be seen as fools now - unless there is a double standard.
Got it. Sometimes I am a bit dense. Excellent point.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 4:05 pm to redandright
quote:
If you think that Putin would be pulling this stuff with Bush and Chaney your deluding yourself.
I seem to recall that W was the President when Putin kicked arse in Georgia, and he didn't do a damn thing.
EDIT:
quote:
Oh, and your claiming that in '08 when the Bush Administration was on its way out, it was supposed to publicly escalate tensions with Russia? Imagine the howls coming from the Left. All outgoing administrations are careful about what they leave on the plate for an incoming one.
This is some convoluted and orwellian thinking which can also be used to defend Jimmy Carter for not attacking Iran when he was on his way out. It's the old "heads-I-win-tails-you-lose" sort of logic.
This post was edited on 2/19/14 at 4:09 pm
Posted on 2/19/14 at 4:17 pm to trackfan
quote:You're wrong about that.
and he didn't do a damn thing.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 4:24 pm to DanTiger
quote:
Got it. Sometimes I am a bit dense. Excellent point.
Your responses to my feeble posts have been nothing but cordial and civilized.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 4:27 pm to LSURussian
quote:
You're wrong about that.
Substantively?
Isn't Russia still occupying parts of Ossetia?
Posted on 2/19/14 at 4:56 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
What were the serious consequences for Russia invading Georgia that Cheney spoke of?
That was in August of 2008, in November of 2008 we elected Barrack Obama POTUS and the world was at peace.
Next question.
This post was edited on 2/20/14 at 4:58 pm
Posted on 2/19/14 at 5:01 pm to trackfan
quote:
When the hell did the Ukraine get to be Obama's responsibility?
The day he took over the world.
But seriously, we all know it isn't Obama's problem. He's just the commander in chief and the chief official in the US regarding foreign policy.
There's no way he could do anything about the Ukraine any more than he could do anything about N Korea, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel, Syria, Libya, Venezuela, Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, or Georgia.
He has his hands full with the economy. Everyone knows that.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 5:24 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
Your responses to my feeble posts have been nothing but cordial and civilized
Thank you. I wish more posters here were as polite as you. Just because we don't always agree is no reason for personal attacks seen here all to often
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