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Message
re: Pastor being sued for anti gay stance here in the US.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 1:43 pm to SammyTiger
Posted on 1/20/14 at 1:43 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
The complaint is that he crossed over the lines of free speech.
Anti-Gay rhetoric in Uganda probably leads to some violence.
What law that is recognized by the US allows for a foreign organization to sue a pastor for anything like this who is located in the US?
quote:
The document doesn't really address how far this guy went.
You mean the COURT document issued by the JUDGE does not go into why he allowed this?
quote:
The freedom of speech does not protect your right in insight violence against other people.
Hmm..... same 2 issues:
1- It did not take place in the US
2- Show me where he did insight violence. Show me his words.
1
Posted on 1/20/14 at 1:45 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
so the pastor wont be forced to say the nuptials, but the church will be forced to provide the venue? Sounds about right....
I didn't make this clusterfrick. I'm simply expounding upon it
Posted on 1/20/14 at 1:46 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
The document really points out that this guy is instrumental in helping write anti-gay legislation and policy in Uganda.
So another country is not allowed to write their own laws? Are you certain that he gave them what they should do to a person who breaks the proposed law?
quote:
At the very least the court should hear the case.
Why? Under what US law is that allowed. Please site it!
Posted on 1/20/14 at 1:46 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
Was libel alleged?
Hard to say without seeing the opposition to the MSJ, but it was certainly referenced in the recitation of the facts on page 10 of the Court's ruling.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 1:49 pm to Scruffy
quote:
I'm no legal guru, but how can someone be sued in the USA for an action committed in a foreign country?
Lawyers, help me out here.
There's the Alien Tort Statute
Oh shite, we're on Page 5 so I wonder if this has been linked already. Only reason this statute came to mind is because I wrote a paper on it.
Didn't get published. 
This post was edited on 1/20/14 at 1:51 pm
Posted on 1/20/14 at 1:51 pm to darkhorse
quote:
You mean the COURT document issued by the JUDGE does not go into why he allowed this?
Do you think every court document ever lists every bit of evidence?
quote:
1- It did not take place in the US
2- Show me where he did insight violence. Show me his words.
I don't know what he said. That doesn't mean the court should reject the case before they figure it out. He may very well be well within his rights to freedom of speech. This is just a judgment on a motion to dismiss, not a summary judgement
Posted on 1/20/14 at 1:53 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
The Supreme Court held in Sosa v. Alvarez-Machain that the ATS provides a cause of action for violations of international norms that are as "specific, universal, and obligatory" as were the norms prohibiting violations of safe conducts, infringements of the rights of ambassadors, and piracy in the 18th century.[19] Courts have found torture; cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment; genocide; war crimes; crimes against humanity; summary execution; prolonged arbitrary detention; and forced disappearance to be actionable under the ATS.[20]
Just to further the info on this statute. The "violation of international norms" doctrine is obviously being stretched more and more by the courts allowing for more cases to be brought here.
This post was edited on 1/20/14 at 1:54 pm
Posted on 1/20/14 at 1:54 pm to darkhorse
Suing him may be a stretch but I don't think I'd point to this case as the Gay-mafia out to make people accept homosexuality. Do any reading on Scott Lively and you find a pretty awful human being who has actively campaigned for the criminalization of homosexuality finding success in Uganda.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 1:58 pm to darkhorse
quote:
Why? Under what US law is that allowed. Please site it!
The judge addresses the issue of jurisdiction in the complaint, better than i could try to.
The Judge Cited the Alien Tort Statute 28 USC Section 1350. I guess you could google that.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:06 pm to sammyptiger
quote:
That's a huge difference than being sued for action taken in the US, which is the title of your thread, which is what I am pointing out
He's being sued IN THE US for his "anti-gay stance".
I don't see the confusion.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:07 pm to darkhorse
darkhorse
U should edit ur Title and the first sentence of OP. Lively isn't being sued for his "stance". Its misleading.
Just trying to help.
U should edit ur Title and the first sentence of OP. Lively isn't being sued for his "stance". Its misleading.
Just trying to help.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:31 pm to S.E.C. Crazy
quote:
They figure if they get a foot in the door in one U.S. court they can then use the world court and have standing.
Yes. You throw enough things against the wall and something will eventually stick.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:36 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
The document doesn't really address how far this guy went. The freedom of speech does not protect your right in insight violence against other people.
Any type of book could theoretically spark a riot. Should U.S. authors be limited to only write books on subjects that are in no way controversial? And who decides what is offensive?
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:40 pm to darkhorse
quote:
He did nothing more than that.
I admit I didn't read the doc but are you sure that's all he did?
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:44 pm to darkhorse
quote:
Now go on and explain how in this case, this instance it's ok. Find that loophole by which you can justify this.
Who said I agree with it? I'm fine with gay marriage but don't think that churches should be forced to do anything. I was just shocked that this had happened.
As for your loophole the argument seems to be that it was public property, but if it's owned by the church then I don't see how it is public property.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:45 pm to Revelator
quote:
Any type of book could theoretically spark a riot. Should U.S. authors be limited to only write books on subjects that are in no way controversial? And who decides what is offensive?
I didn't say being offensive is too far. Obviously the plaintiff thinks this guy went beyond offensive to dangerous.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:49 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
I didn't say being offensive is too far. Obviously the plaintiff thinks this guy went beyond offensive to dangerous.
You do understand the Pandora's box of snap that will be opened if this succeeds right?
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:56 pm to darkhorse
People are being executed because of what he is inciting. Free speech has limits.
This post was edited on 1/20/14 at 2:57 pm
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:58 pm to Revelator
quote:
You do understand the Pandora's box of snap that will be opened if this succeeds right?
People could be sued for helping write laws denying people their rights?
Oh shite
Posted on 1/20/14 at 3:00 pm to sammyptiger
quote:
LGBTI
What is an "I"? I've also recently seen LBGTQ and LGBTQQ. How quickly can we get this up to 10 letters? Surely there's others out there in need of social justice!!!
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