Do these injuries buy Monty another year? - Page 3 - TigerDroppings.com

Posted byMessage
ShamelessPel
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Metairie
Member since Apr 2013
2466 posts

re: Do these injuries buy Monty another year?


quote:

do you know an NBA coach that can win without talent?


Aimed at the OP Tiger,

Jeff Hornacek comes to mind. Brad Stevens come to mind. Both rosters were built to tank and both compete on a nightly basis. 1 is somehow top 8 in the West.






Back to top
TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
32950 posts

re: Do these injuries buy Monty another year?


quote:

Brad Stevens come to mind.


Why is Brad Stevens getting so much buzz as a good coach? Boston is 13-25 and ranked 12 in the pitiful Eastern Conference. They have lost 8 straight and are 1-9 in their last 10. I haven't seen them play much, so maybe they look competitive in losing, like the Monty/Jarrett Jack Hornets did, but the record says he isn't worthy of the buzz.

quote:

Jeff Hornacek


How did the Jazz pick Corbin over Hornacek?






Back to top
ShamelessPel
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Metairie
Member since Apr 2013
2466 posts

re: Do these injuries buy Monty another year?


quote:

Why is Brad Stevens getting so much buzz as a good coach? Boston is 13-25 and ranked 12 in the pitiful Eastern Conference.


Well, before the losing streak they were actually vying for a playoff spot.

Green, Bradley, Sullinger, Crawford, Bass are his starting lineup.

Of those 5, only 2 could say they'd start on a playoff team. It's not like any of those 5 can Anthony Davis every game and give you 20/10/4 every single night and disrupt both ends of the floor. Green is much more similar to Gordon and he's their best offensive player.

This is also his first season as head coach, so he truly has had only one offseason with a patchwork lineup to figure this out.

Give him Rondo back soon, and I wouldn't be surprised if these Celtics came back and won a first round playoff series against 1 of the other bottom dwellers.

There are also certain things this team does well. They keep teams off the 3 pt line, they're an OK rebounding team despite being massively undersized, they don't turn the ball over.

Really, for a team that has no 3 pt shooters, no legitimate ball handler, and no legitimate paint presence, they're over performing.






Back to top
corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
5361 posts

re: Do these injuries buy Monty another year?


quote:

This team this year with Monty as coach has proven that they are very unlikely to win unless they have a talent advantage. If the talent is what's winning, then what is the coach doing?


We're not going to agree on the 9-6 at all. I will say that they played 8 games against teams above 500. They won 2, played 3 very tight, and not so good in the other 3. Competitive in 5 out of 8 vs playoff caliber teams is in line with where this roster should be. That doesn't excuse losses and it's not good enough over the long haul.

I would also say that sample size is a problem. Drawing conclusions, good or bad, from 15 games is dangerous at best.

quote:

Popovic. I'd say Thibs and Carlisle


Not buying they have teams with lesser talent. Even if we ignore the future HOFs here, the rosters are filled out with been through it vets. I don't see any stabilizers on this Pelicans team.

One of your main frustrations seems to be that Monty doesn't elevate his team above expectations, well are any of these coaches exceeding expectations? That is not knocking any of those 3 or in any way equating Monty to them. They are all among the best in the league and do tremendous work- Monty still has much to prove.

What each guys does that Monty doesn't is that they have smart systems that enable their players. I don't believe the Pelicans FO or coaching staff has any clue as to who they want to be.

quote:

Hornacek


That is one. No one has any idea how they are doing what they are doing. Like the 3 above, he has a system that enables his players. That he enabled the Morris twins to be legitimate NBA players is unreal. Great job by him. Hope they come back to earth so the Pelicans don't have to worry about Phoenix over the next few years.






Back to top
TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
32950 posts

re: Do these injuries buy Monty another year?


quote:

What each guys does that Monty doesn't is that they have smart systems that enable their players.




It sounds like you're off the Monty bandwagon too yet you're still defending him. I get defending the board against bad arguments, but how can you say what I quoted and think he should be defended?

quote:

I don't believe the Pelicans FO or coaching staff has any clue as to who they want to be.


They probably won't know until AD matures. If AD is KG, then you probably need to trade Ryno, if AD is David Robinson 2.0, then you want to keep Ryno.






Back to top
NOLAbaby
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Chittorgarh Rajasthan, India
Member since Sep 2013
1096 posts

re: Do these injuries buy Monty another year?


quote:

those wins have mostly come against losing teams

Beat Portland. You lose the argument

quote:

Well, before the losing streak they were actually vying for a playoff spot.

That's why you play 82 games, not 22 bud






Back to top
TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
32950 posts

re: Do these injuries buy Monty another year?


quote:

those wins have mostly come against losing teams


Beat Portland. You lose the argument



So I'm not sure whether you had problem with "mostly" "lose" or "argument", but I think a dictionary would be a sound investment for you.






Back to top
Gtothemoney
UNO Fan
Da North Shore
Member since Sep 2012
7034 posts

re: Do these injuries buy Monty another year?








Back to top
  Replies (0)
corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
5361 posts

re: Do these injuries buy Monty another year?


First, for Firefly gif

quote:

It sounds like you're off the Monty bandwagon too yet you're still defending him


I've always had complaints. But it doesn't mean he's awful or that he is holding the team back. He deserves critiques, but he isn't all bad. If the brain trust wants to move on, they have cause

quote:

They probably won't know until AD matures


I agree completely. And this is why I cut Monty slack on system and performance. Hard to gain coherence when your team is built around the prodigious, yet undetermined, talents of a 20 yo 2nd year player.

I think people are right to be impatient. It's been a long three years. But at times it moves too far into the pitchfork scenario for my tastes.

Two related reads I think are great. The first is today's Ziller on winning and luck.

LINK

2nd is older from HP on perspective. We are in a bad spot- injuries, losses, miserable weather outside. Easy to forget there are still important steps this team can take even if preseason hopes are out of the picture.

LINK /






Back to top
VOR
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2009
41192 posts

re: Do these injuries buy Monty another year?


quote:

I agree completely. And this is why I cut Monty slack on system and performance. Hard to gain coherence when your team is built around the prodigious, yet undetermined, talents of a 20 yo 2nd year player.


Well, in my opinion we do know enough about who we have in AD. I think his position is PF with occasional lane clogging and rim defense. We know he's special and athletically gifted. He seems to want to work hard.

So when we put together this roster, I thought two things. First, it is by no means the "final" roster, and that eventually the needs at the 3 and 5 would be addressed by moving and acquiring pieces. Second, I thought the current roster was intriguing and talented enough to make it interesting and a challenge to other teams.

Injuries have made it tough to judge either of my thoughts/hopes. But, I'm not so sure Monty is up to the challenge on my second thought, i.e., making this roster competitive and challenging, although we don't really have enough of a sample size.

Now, our trade options and other moves are sort of fricked because of the injury situation, as well.

Maybe I was giving Demps too much credit. Maybe the same with Monty.

But I do agree that, in many instances, the criticisms directed to both on this board have been reactionary and shallow. I've always said that getting to into February and the All Star break would be a proper time to make some sort of overall assessment.






Back to top
Galactic Inquisitor
LSU Fan
An Incredibly Distant Star
Member since Dec 2013
3295 posts

re: Do these injuries buy Monty another year?


Even when we're healthy, we have a very awkward roster. We have several high-priced players that don't really compliment each other well leaving us with a very little quality depth. One of the biggest gripes on Monty is his rotations, but smart rotations are a product of roster diversity, which we have very little of.

I really do think Demps deserves nearly as much criticism as Monty at this point. I like Tyreke and Jrue, but they don't compliment Gordon at all. Like him or not, he is our highest paid player and will be tough to move.

TigerinATL always mentions "asset acquisition," but we really have no decent assets that will result in forward progress. Everything kind of goes sideways unless you're ready to move Tyreke, Jrue, or Ryno. At that point, are you even improving the roster? If you are going to use the "asset acquisition" argument in favor of Demps, it's really not fair to use current results against Monty. Player development and asset acquisition are both decisions for the future that dampen the present.

You're giving the coach 3 motors, 2 wheels, and a helmet and asking him to build a race car. This isn't to say that Monty is a great coach or untouchable, but anyone that blasts Monty and defends Demps is doing so with very little basis in logic.






Back to top
TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
32950 posts

re: Do these injuries buy Monty another year?


One big difference between Monty and Demps is that there is a proven better option available that is campaigning for Monty's job. I don't care about being fair to Monty, I care about keeping Anthony Davis when his 3rd contract comes around.

There are definitely issues with the roster, some of which may go away with nothing more than time as the roster is very young. So if we stayed the course Monty Williams might be able to get this team to the same place as anyone else. But this will be the 3rd season he's gotten a grade of "incomplete due to not ready for prime time players" and the only season where we saw flashes of anything above average from him was when he had the best game controller at PG and a Boy Genius assistant that is now a head coach.

I view the potential of coach Monty Williams much like I view the potential of player Austin Rivers. Expectations have been adjusted based on lack of production, and while he may surprise us in the end, I'm comfortable with the downgrade he's been given.






Back to top
Galactic Inquisitor
LSU Fan
An Incredibly Distant Star
Member since Dec 2013
3295 posts

re: Do these injuries buy Monty another year?


quote:

I care about keeping Anthony Davis when his 3rd contract comes around.


Poor GM decisions can run a star off as fast as any coach.

quote:

But this will be the 3rd season he's gotten a grade of "incomplete due to not ready for prime time players


So, this is the third straight season that Demps has put together a sub-par roster....

quote:

the only season where we saw flashes of anything above average from him was when he had the best game controller at PG


See above. I like Dell, but our shortcomings don't all fall on Monty.






Back to top
TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
32950 posts

re: Do these injuries buy Monty another year?


quote:

So, this is the third straight season that Demps has put together a sub-par roster....


The difference is that if these aren't long term injuries, we can judge Demps talent acquisitions this year while we are unable to judge Monty's ability to coach them. Tyreke and Jrue are pretty known quantities. Demps also has the benefit of the possible opportunity to move Gordon before the trade deadline. If Anderson is out for the rest of the season, Monty will get no such opportunity to pull out a win this season.






Back to top
Gtothemoney
UNO Fan
Da North Shore
Member since Sep 2012
7034 posts

re: Do these injuries buy Monty another year?


quote:

but our shortcomings don't all fall on Monty.








Back to top
  Replies (0)
Galactic Inquisitor
LSU Fan
An Incredibly Distant Star
Member since Dec 2013
3295 posts

re: Do these injuries buy Monty another year?


quote:

The difference is that if these aren't long term injuries, we can judge Demps talent acquisitions this year while we are unable to judge Monty's ability to coach them.


We can't judge the roster completely, either. Are you ready to say that the pieces fit together well?

quote:

Tyreke and Jrue are pretty known quantities.


How the fit with the rest of the roster is not.

quote:

Demps also has the benefit of the possible opportunity to move Gordon before the trade deadline


I'll believe it when I see it. That will go a very long way toward judging his moves.

quote:

If Anderson is out for the rest of the season, Monty will get no such opportunity to pull out a win this season.


I don't think Dell gets a win, either. His roster he created was mismatched even when healthy. He does a decent job of finding underrated bench players, but has yet to build a solid roster. Maybe he does in a year or two, but maybe Monty could coach a solid roster to the playoffs. Chicken or egg?






Back to top
TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
32950 posts

re: Do these injuries buy Monty another year?


quote:

Are you ready to say that the pieces fit together well?


I like the Core 4, but it was a given before the season that Gordon and/or his salary needed to be turned into other pieces.

quote:

Chicken or egg?


Upgrade available or not? Part of why I defended Monty last year wasn't just lack of good data, but also the lack of viable alternatives. That situation has changed for Monty, not for Demps.






Back to top
Galactic Inquisitor
LSU Fan
An Incredibly Distant Star
Member since Dec 2013
3295 posts

re: Do these injuries buy Monty another year?


quote:

I like the Core 4, but it was a given before the season that Gordon and/or his salary needed to be turned into other pieces.


And he put himself at a place of weakness with the roster he built. Just like people know that Asik is overpaid and a terrible fit in Houston, the same is true of Gordon now. We're going to stay strapped until someone does Demps a favor.

quote:

Upgrade available or not?


There very well may be an upgrade out there. I just don't think you can say Dell has done better than Monty. It's looking more like both of them are subpar.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
5361 posts

re: Do these injuries buy Monty another year?


Cosign all of that.

However I keep having fever dreams of Davis destroying the league as a 5 in an uptempo system.

Will have to roll out the Z Graphs post season and see what shakes out.






Back to top
  Replies (0)


Back to top