NFL--another special interest--pays no taxes - Page 4 - TigerDroppings.com

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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5275 posts

re: NFL--another special interest--pays no taxes


quote:

Are you proposing taxing assets?


No I point out the assets to show they are not passing on all the profits and to show that a very large proportion of the assets are loans to the teams. I showed you I think $621 million in loans to members and a billion in total assets in the non profit.

Now do you see how they are avoiding taxes as owners because of this non profit entity?

If it as you assume that all the profits simply flow through this entity to the owners there would be no assets.

The facts are the dues they charge themselves and use to offset income in their taxable teams entities are a large part of the assets. The non profit has loaned the owners $600 million plus of their own money rather than distributing it to them creating a taxable event.



This post was edited on 9/19 at 9:52 pm


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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
15872 posts

re: NFL--another special interest--pays no taxes


I see your point now. Ok. So how many years total to get to the 600mm? I'm trying to figure what the lost "revenue " is. I'm not trying to be a jerk. I appreciate your zeal on these issues. Just trying to figure out exactly h much is "lost" by the exempt status.





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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5275 posts

re: NFL--another special interest--pays no taxes


quote:

I see your point now. Ok. So how many years total to get to the 600mm? I'm trying to figure what the lost "revenue " is. I'm not trying to be a jerk. I appreciate your zeal on these issues. Just trying to figure out exactly h much is "lost" by the exempt status.


Well I would say certainly the entire billion should have been taxed and I am sure they have found ways to move assets out with no tax consequences. They planned this from the time the two leagues merged. It took an act of Congress to allow them to have this non profit entity (all the sports non profits for that matter) so they had very good reasons to do it.

I am really shocked by the AJC article that says the non profit has for profit subsidiaries. That opens the door for all kind of shenanigans.

I suspect one thing they could also be doing is too purchase some depreciable asset--an office building for example--use it for years and then transfer it to the owners at it's completely depreciated value even though it's value has appreciated.

There are a lot of tax avoidance opportunities having this non profit entity there.



This post was edited on 9/19 at 9:51 pm


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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
15872 posts

re: NFL--another special interest--pays no taxes


Wish I was the nfl's tax attorney.





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Poodlebrain
LSU Fan
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
14947 posts
 Online 

re: NFL--another special interest--pays no taxes


quote:

They couldn't for example, give a partnership or an LLC $6million a year without it creating a taxable or distributable event for the LLC. You see? The money would simply come back to them as income.
You are wrong. Contributions of property to partnerships are nontaxable events unless there are unusual circumstances. And distributions of property are nontaxable events provided the partners have sufficient basis in their partnership interests.

quote:

By "paying dues" to a non profit the money does not come back as income and it is an expense to the owners reducing their taxable income. The non profit in this case loans the money to the owners interest free in a stadium fund and probably in many other funds. They have use of their money and save taxes.
There are rules that apply to below market rate loans that you should familiarize yourself with before you make posts like the one above. You might also look into the concept of self-charged interest.






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5275 posts

re: NFL--another special interest--pays no taxes


quote:

You are wrong. Contributions of property to partnerships are nontaxable events unless there are unusual circumstances. And distributions of property are nontaxable events provided the partners have sufficient basis in their partnership interests.

quote:
By "paying dues" to a non profit the money does not come back as income and it is an expense to the owners reducing their taxable income. The non profit in this case loans the money to the owners interest free in a stadium fund and probably in many other funds. They have use of their money and save taxes.
There are rules that apply to below market rate loans that you should familiarize yourself with before you make posts like the one above. You might also look into the concept of self-charged interest.


Ok Poodle brain you explain just why the NFL wants a non profit entity and how this entity amassed over a billion dollar of assets if it disburses all it's profits.

Post these rules that apply to non profits who must have a stated mission and their limitations on below market loan rates to accomplish these missions. You should look into things like before you post what you have posted.

When you get finish with that just tell us why such an entity has over $600 million in loans to contributing members on it's books. The reports say those loans are interest free. There is no way they could do this with partnerships or LLCs.

Why would they want a partnership if they can have this non profit entity? You are right contributions to partnerships are non taxable for the partnership but they are not expenses for the contributor---they are assets of the contributor. If I put $6 million in a partnership it is simply an investment and means nothing in and of itself income wise. If however I am billed $6 million for dues by a non profit it is an expense to me that offsets $6 million in income which at a 30% tax rate saves me $1.8 million in taxes. Now these guys control what the non profit does and one of the things it does is loan the contributors their money back for no interest.

It is plain as day they are using this entity to avoid taxes for the owners. Now why you have problems seeing that is beyond me.

All this stuff you are saying is right for most of us. That is why it is wrong that Congress made exceptions for these sports teams. That is why it is BS they can do it and it is why Coburn---a very good friend of taxpayers---wants to stop it.

Now would you like to talk about how the PGA benefits from the same law?






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5275 posts

re: NFL--another special interest--pays no taxes


quote:

Wish I was the nfl's tax attorney.


I suspect he is very well paid and has earned every dollar of it. Setting up this non profit and getting the Congress of the United States to allow it was a very good days work for the team owners.






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LSURussian
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2005
80158 posts

re: NFL--another special interest--pays no taxes


You are embarrassing yourself.........AGAIN.





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TigerintheNO
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2004
22528 posts

re: NFL--another special interest--pays no taxes


quote:

Ok Poodle brain you explain just why the NFL wants a non profit entity and how this entity amassed over a billion dollar of assets if it disburses all it's profits.


$620 million is in the Legacy Fund & then there is the regular pension fund in which each team contribute $18 million annually.






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5275 posts

re: NFL--another special interest--pays no taxes


quote:

$620 million is in the Legacy Fund & then there is the regular pension fund in which each team contribute $18 million annually


doesn't mean anything--the $620 million was loaned back to the entities that contributed it and rightfully counted it as an expense for their taxes when they paid the $6 million as dues.

Why are you people so defensive of this special interest tax loophole?




This post was edited on 9/20 at 9:13 am


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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
15872 posts

re: NFL--another special interest--pays no taxes


quote:

Why are you people so defensive of this special interest tax loophole?


nobody is defensive. Just we don't see the big miscarriage of justice you do. The difference in taxes paid between non-profit NFL and LLLP or LP NFL are not that big of a difference.






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5275 posts

re: NFL--another special interest--pays no taxes


quote:

nobody is defensive. Just we don't see the big miscarriage of justice you do. The difference in taxes paid between non-profit NFL and LLLP or LP NFL are not that big of a difference.


well on the billion dollar in assets right now that implies that at a 30% tax rate the owners saved $300 million in taxes. What if say NFL films is a LLC that is owned by the non profit? You see the advantages of having the non profit??? The non profit does not have to make disbursements of income. So long as they are doing their "stated mission" they can do with the money as they please. To accomplish their mission they can do things like make interest free loans ect.

You should all be happy Coburn is asking that the NFL do business like every one else whether it is tax positive or negative. Congress has granted them a very special privilege and should not have.






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LSURussian
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2005
80158 posts

re: NFL--another special interest--pays no taxes


quote:

NFL films is a LLC that is owned by the non profit?
Do they get tax credits from Louisiana?






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5275 posts

re: NFL--another special interest--pays no taxes


quote:

Do they get tax credits from Louisiana?


They would certainly qualify if they did work here just like CBS did when the super bowl was here. They had some talk show that broadcast from here and claimed I think $1.5 million in tax credits. Boy that show really made some jobs didn't it?






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LSURussian
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2005
80158 posts

re: NFL--another special interest--pays no taxes


quote:

They would certainly qualify if they did work here
Why would they need income tax credits since they are non-profit?






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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
15872 posts

re: NFL--another special interest--pays no taxes


quote:

You should all be happy Coburn is asking that the NFL do business like every one else whether it is tax positive or negative. Congress has granted them a very special privilege and should not have


It doesn't really matter. You think a general partner cannot make loans to limited partners like the NFL has allegedly done? You think a partnership can't set up private foundations and have a billion dollars of assets in it? The fact is...if the NFL wasn't a not for profit all it would take is a little planning and viola...same or very similar tax outcome. You are worried about a de minimis issue.






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5275 posts

re: NFL--another special interest--pays no taxes


quote:

Why would they need income tax credits since they are non-profit?


To sell them for cash.

I don't know if NFL films is non profit or not but it doesn't matter they can get cash for the credits.

Why would you ask such a question? Do you not understand those credits are essentially cash yet??






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TigerintheNO
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2004
22528 posts

re: NFL--another special interest--pays no taxes


quote:

doesn't mean anything--the $620 million was loaned back to the entities that contributed it and rightfully counted it as an expense for their taxes when they paid the $6 million as dues. Why are you people so defensive of this special interest tax loophole?


because so much of your info is factually incorrect

The $620 million dollars in the Legacy Fund will be paid out to former players from the 60s, 70s, & early 80s.






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5275 posts

re: NFL--another special interest--pays no taxes


quote:

because so much of your info is factually incorrect

The $620 million dollars in the Legacy Fund will be paid out to former players from the 60s, 70s, & early 80s.


Then it is different than the $620 million in loans to the owners or are the loans to the owners the legacy fund?

You see what I am saying? They could have this fund inside the non profit that consists of the loans made to the owners . You understand that it doesn't matter right? They put the money into the non profit expensing it to their team reducing the taxable income of the team.

I am not sure if I were a player hoping to receive something from this legacy fund if I would want it's assets to be loans to the owners of teams. I would much rather the legacy fund be it's own entity and invested in something safer than loans to related parties.



This post was edited on 9/20 at 10:33 am


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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
15872 posts

re: NFL--another special interest--pays no taxes


quote:

Then it is different than the $620 million in loans to the owners or are the loans to the owners the legacy fund?


Finally read your link. I thought it was some sort of report with actual financials. You are basing your entire argument on one reporters allegations of what the dues are used for and how they are treated on the returns of owners and the nfl? Pretty flimsy, man. You have any real evidence?




This post was edited on 9/20 at 10:50 am


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