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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
286761 posts

re: STrange times indeed


quote:

but future spending has nothing at all to do with the current debt.....that horse has left the barn....those goods and services have been received.

i'm talking about current spending on government behavior outside of these goods and services

quote:

yes, spending cuts in the future will eliminate this problem but we can't go back and unspend

spending cuts today can help, but you bring up the bigger issue: we won't cut spending "in the future". this is the THIRD debt ceiling crisis and government hasn't done shite. over the past 50 years government has only expanded and spent more. the next time we have this discussion, you're going to bring up the same arguments about the same economic effects to cutting government, and then talk about how we have to wait to cut government because it will hurt too much, in one way or another

quote:

I don't know how we are still able to get credit to be honest...I guess we are the still the prettiest pony in the show but good god can you imagine a banker still lending you money if you went to him and said you were no longer gonna pay your bills so you could cut spending?????

our government gets loaned the majority of its money from government agencies and money by a quasi-government entity controlled by americans







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germandawg
Member since Sep 2012
2718 posts

re: STrange times indeed


quote:


if they were a coherent movement i'd agree but the reality is some tea party factions are not good for the country while others are actual tea party small government groups.


I agree....when the movement first began I was all about supporting it....grassroots efforts are the basis of our republic....but the Tea Party did not last long in its initial form....it was soon co-opted by special interest groups, like everything else in the US, and has turned into something else entirely. I am sure there are all sorts of tea parties and tea party supporters but the fact is clear that some of the people who have gone into office as tea party candidates are nuts and have no business in public service....






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oklahogjr
Arizona State Fan
Gold Membership
Member since Jan 2010
21853 posts

re: STrange times indeed


quote:

some of the people who have gone into office as tea party candidates are nuts and have no business in public service....

John Bennett being my favorite example of this. Seriously frick that guy.






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BugAC
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2007
17980 posts

re: STrange times indeed


quote:

.yes, spending cuts in the future will eliminate this problem but we can't go back and unspend....it isn't possible....we have racked up the debt and it must be paid or we are in default.


And do you honestly believe your boy Obama will ever entertain the idea of spending cuts in the future? frick no.

And we'll be having this same conversation next year. and the year after. SPENDING IS THE PROBLEM. Cut the spending first, then, once it is managed, you can talk about raising a debt ceiling.






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doubleb
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
4948 posts

re: STrange times indeed


quote:

Listen, i don't like Bachmann nor Palin either. Palin i don't like, because she became, basically, a tv personality


That's what we elected in 2008, and 2012; a TV personality, a 24/7 campaigner void of leadership ability.






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BugAC
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2007
17980 posts

re: STrange times indeed


quote:

when the movement first began I was all about supporting it....grassroots efforts are the basis of our republic..


That's complete bull shite. There is no way you can support the ideals of the tea party and vote for Obama twice. You are lying.






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germandawg
Member since Sep 2012
2718 posts

re: STrange times indeed


quote:

The tea party, as i see it, is for small government, cutting spending, and pro private business



The Tea Party is not, apparently, pro business because they are now to the right of the Chamber of Commerce!!!






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fleaux
LSU Fan
section 0
Member since Aug 2012
3713 posts
 Online 

re: STrange times indeed


So Germandawg if the debt ceiling isn't based on spending then why does it need to be raised?? Could it be that new SPENDING is being added on top of that debt????


This post was edited on 9/19 at 8:54 am


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doubleb
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
4948 posts

re: STrange times indeed


quote:

some of the people who have gone into office as tea party candidates are nuts and have no business in public service


And there aren't nuts on the Democrat side.

How about Barney Frank who had a male prostitute living with him? How about some of those other nut jobs like the one who was worried about Guam tipping over? America elects crazies, but it's only the crazies on the right who are called out. The Dem crazies go unscathed by the media.






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BugAC
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2007
17980 posts

re: STrange times indeed


quote:

The Tea Party is not, apparently, pro business because they are now to the right of the Chamber of Commerce!!!


Can you be more obvious? The new york times is not an unbiased source. Why do you quote it like it's gospel?






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
286761 posts

re: STrange times indeed


the chamber of commerce is nothing more than another pig wanting to keep eating at the trough

they are crony capitalists






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germandawg
Member since Sep 2012
2718 posts

re: STrange times indeed


quote:

GERMANDOG, explain to me how you can look at yourself in the mirror, and vote for the a-holes who not once, but 3 times have come to the public and said, "if you don't raise the debt ceiling, it's the Republicans fault?"

Last year, the dems said that the world would burn if the debt ceiling wasn't raised. So it was raised, and one year later they want it raised again. No spending has been cut. You are enabling a drug addict. Instead of saying, "no more heroine, you need to seek help", you are saying, "ok, i'll buy your drugs for you this time, but if you do it again....well i'll still buy em for you then too."

Cut the fricking spending. And then, and only then, come to the public about needing to raise the debt ceiling.

Hell, if you cut the insane spending enough, there would be no need to extend the debt ceiling, and maybe our credit rating would stay in tact, instead of being downgraded again, under Obama.


The debt ceiling should have never existed in the first place....it is a number that has been picked out of thin air and has no meaning. It has, however, allowed the DEMS to make hay by blaming the GOP. You can't uunspend money, my friend......it can't be done. If you don't raise the debt ceiling you are gonna default on your responsibilities.....cut spending all you want to....eliminate it if you can politically...but pay your fricking bills that you have already acquired....






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
286761 posts

re: STrange times indeed


quote:

If you don't raise the debt ceiling you are gonna default on your responsibilities.....cut spending all you want to....eliminate it if you can politically...but pay your fricking bills that you have already acquired....

this is jsut not true. i'll give you an extreme example to prove my point

if we defunded medicare tomorrow, we would have plenty of money to pay our bills/interest






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oklahogjr
Arizona State Fan
Gold Membership
Member since Jan 2010
21853 posts

re: STrange times indeed


quote:


How about Barney Frank who had a male prostitute living with him? How about some of those other nut jobs like the one who was worried about Guam tipping over? America elects crazies, but it's only the crazies on the right who are called out. The Dem crazies go unscathed by the media.


well yea, if you'd like me to rail on democrats for awhile I can. But only if it'll make you feel more secure in my agreement with your beliefs. Every time I say something shitty about a republican people automatically assume I've got to be a democrat then. No maybe i'm just not looking through crazy bias glasses. Both sides are way the frick out of control. They act like a ruling class and have damn near legislated themselves into an aristocracy. Both sides are at fault for this mess.






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doubleb
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
4948 posts

re: STrange times indeed


quote:

The Tea Party is not, apparently, pro business because they are now to the right of the Chamber of Commerce!!!


There is not a Tea party in the same sense there is a Democrat Party a Republican Party and a Libertarian Party.

The Tea Party name was given to a grassroot movement that never organized on a national scale and that is why there are so many variations of Tea Party groups.

Sure most Tea Party groups are conservative, but many are pro business too.






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MMauler
Member since Jun 2013
934 posts

re: STrange times indeed


quote:

That's complete bull shite. There is no way you can support the ideals of the tea party and vote for Obama twice. You are lying.


Bing-F-ing-O!






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Ghostfacedistiller
USA Fan
BR
Member since Jun 2008
13907 posts

re: STrange times indeed


quote:

but in order to secure the nomination they had to pander to the tea baggers...even before they were formed and co-opted by the Koch brothers


IMO you're not worth engaging as you're clearly a sheep.






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CptBengal
USA Fan
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
35833 posts

re: STrange times indeed


The insane statists and neocons are running scared from true conservatives





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germandawg
Member since Sep 2012
2718 posts

re: STrange times indeed


quote:

we did not have a hand in creating, appointing, or influencing policy of the bureaucracy my friend




And yet the Tea Party is lauded by members and detractors alike as being an example of grass roots efforts at effecting change? You and I can and do have the power to effect change...that is how the Tea Party got where it is today and why we are having this discussion....we just do not have the willingness to effect change...and that is the difference....

quote:

let's say i am somehow magically and retroactively placed as the god of American government. i'm 30 years old and i've only possibly been in power for 12 years. how am i responsible for all of the policy, spending, and debt accumulated prior to that?



I can feel for you but unfortunately your parents and grandparents left you with a shitty deal.






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
286761 posts

re: STrange times indeed


quote:

And yet the Tea Party is lauded by members and detractors alike as being an example of grass roots efforts at effecting change?

at this point they're more of a gnat on the big government types (of both parties) who are trying to stall growth by obstructing growth. they're not in a power position (yet) to enact true changes

quote:

we just do not have the willingness to effect change...and that is the difference....

if that's true, why do you think we'll solve the spending issues down the line? what makes you think we won't continue to have this same problem over and over and over again until it all crashes?

quote:

I can feel for you but unfortunately your parents and grandparents left you with a shitty deal.

so it's THEIR fault, not mine

glad we got the moral blame game settled






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