Jay Carney: Slams Russia on American Exceptionalism - Page 7 - TigerDroppings.com

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constant cough
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Lafayette
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re: Jay Carney: Slams Russia on American Exceptionalism


Jay Carney;dr





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Sentrius
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Fort Rozz
Member since Jun 2011
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re: Jay Carney: Slams Russia on American Exceptionalism


quote:

Libertarians are the most patriotic and freedom-loving people out there. In fact, they are ideologically closer to the framers than either major parties.

Impossible to argue that point.

Libertarians want freedom and celebrate individuality.

Dems and GOP want subjugation, obedience, and collectivism.


Well said, Roaad.

Dissent is one of the highest forms of patriotism and libertarians including me are pretty damn good at that.






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CarrolltonTiger
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New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
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re: Jay Carney: Slams Russia on American Exceptionalism


quote:

Dissent is one of the highest forms of patriotism and libertarians including me are pretty damn good at that.


I think the initial allegation/generalization is as absurd as Roadd's defense.

Wouldn't it depend upon what you are dissenting against? Statist and Progressives can also dissent as much at Libertarians. Patriotism often requires a bit of action for the nation the collective, perhaps serving in the military to defend the nation, contributing something besides dissent. Refusal to cooperate with the state isn't always a form of support.

Next thing we know there will be a claim Anarchist are the greatest patriots. Selfism =/= patriotism.






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Interception
Providence Fan
Member since Nov 2008
11089 posts

re: Jay Carney: Slams Russia on American Exceptionalism


quote:

Libertarians are the most patriotic and freedom-loving people out there. In fact, they are ideologically closer to the founders than either major parties.

Impossible to argue that point.


Really, many are self proclaimed anarchist?

Also, you conveniently left this part out

quote:

I'm not trying to paint all libertarians in this manner, just pointing out things that disturb me



This post was edited on 9/13 at 2:59 pm


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Roaad
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Bushrod Owns
Member since Aug 2006
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re: Jay Carney: Slams Russia on American Exceptionalism


quote:

Really, many are self proclaimed anarchist?
An anarchist can't be a libertarian.

What a stupid thing to say. . .

Can an atheist be a theist?







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Roaad
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Member since Aug 2006
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re: Jay Carney: Slams Russia on American Exceptionalism


quote:

Patriotism often requires a bit of action for the nation the collective
So you can only be patriotic if you do it with a group?

I always viewed patriotism as an individual action/attitude/behavior that seeks to improve the nature or image of the nation the individual loves.

Now when a group of them gets together on the topic, it is still patriotism. Patriotism is an individual thing, but is not diluted by collective efforts.

Just my personal view.
quote:

Refusal to cooperate with the state isn't always a form of support.
But it is sometimes, isn't it?






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Interception
Providence Fan
Member since Nov 2008
11089 posts

re: Jay Carney: Slams Russia on American Exceptionalism


quote:

An anarchist can't be a libertarian.

What a stupid thing to say. . .

Can an atheist be a theist?


Yet, some people consider themselves "libertarian anarchist"

What a stupid thing for them to say?






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Roaad
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re: Jay Carney: Slams Russia on American Exceptionalism


quote:

What a stupid thing for them to say?
Yes.

You can be anarcho-capitalist, or a free-market anarchist.

I think Libertarians are almost textbook minarchists. . .which is what Republicans think they are






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Zamoro10
Member since Jul 2008
13667 posts

re: Jay Carney: Slams Russia on American Exceptionalism


quote:

the United States stands up for democratic values and human rights in our own country


We do?






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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
46292 posts

re: Jay Carney: Slams Russia on American Exceptionalism


quote:

So you can only be patriotic if you do it with a group?


You do it for the group you dolt, you sacrifice or serve for the group,

Can you practice citizenship without being a citizen?

quote:

I always viewed patriotism as an individual action/attitude/behavior that seeks to improve the nature or image of the nation the individual loves.


Nothing I wrote conflicts with that.







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Roaad
LSU Fan
Bushrod Owns
Member since Aug 2006
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re: Jay Carney: Slams Russia on American Exceptionalism


quote:

You do it for the group you dolt, you sacrifice or serve for the group,
In this case, a nation.

quote:

Can you practice citizenship without being a citizen?
Can you pull for a team without being a fan of that team?







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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
46292 posts

re: Jay Carney: Slams Russia on American Exceptionalism


quote:

In this case, a nation.


Yes, the collective, valuing the collective over your personal or petty interests.

quote:

Can you pull for a team without being a fan of that team?


What is your point? Other than you thinnking "pulling for" is equivalent to a patriotic act, which is pathetic.






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Roaad
LSU Fan
Bushrod Owns
Member since Aug 2006
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re: Jay Carney: Slams Russia on American Exceptionalism


quote:

Yes, the collective, valuing the collective over your personal or petty interests.
So a patriotic act is one that benefits other people?

I think it is possible to be patriotic over ideas and concepts of places, particularly homelands.

quote:

What is your point?
the same as tying citizenship to patriotism.






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Powerman
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Corpus Christi, TX
Member since Jan 2004
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re: Jay Carney: Slams Russia on American Exceptionalism


quote:

Hasn't Obama dismissed American Exceptionalism fairly consistently?

Could you please provide examples?






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Interception
Providence Fan
Member since Nov 2008
11089 posts

re: Jay Carney: Slams Russia on American Exceptionalism


quote:

We do?


Yea we do...

I think we have not always been true to those democratic values in the past but we have made great strides on democracy and human rights at home. We don't torture or kill people for political decent in the streets or suppress public demonstrations.






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