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re: Ouch, Market Taking a Beating

Posted on 8/15/13 at 3:03 pm to
Posted by Vols&Shaft83
Throbbing Member
Member since Dec 2012
69876 posts
Posted on 8/15/13 at 3:03 pm to
quote:

Perhaps more importantly, the guy who shorted real estate (subprime) in 2007's "greatest trade ever."





And every once in awhile people win the lottery
Posted by NC_Tigah
Carolinas
Member since Sep 2003
123729 posts
Posted on 8/15/13 at 3:04 pm to
quote:

I think he might be about to walk into the same trap with REITs, but we already discussed real estate a good bit in that thread from last Friday.
OTOH, in a straight bet along those lines, a VIX position might make sense.
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 8/15/13 at 3:10 pm to
Yep.

TBT might be an interesting play as well. Almost this whole board (me included) was premature about jumping on the TBT bandwagon for five freaking years... but in the last 3 months it looks like it's finally started to take off.
Posted by Cmlsu5618
Destin, FL
Member since Sep 2010
3763 posts
Posted on 8/15/13 at 3:14 pm to
quote:

TBT


Closest thing to arbitrage that I can see.
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 8/15/13 at 3:20 pm to
Yeah, but you never want to go too far out on a limb in tying your own personal fate to guessing what the Fed is going to do, so maybe VIX would be a better idea. There will likely be a lot of back and forth in the next few years.
Posted by Blakely Bimbo
Member since Dec 2010
1183 posts
Posted on 8/15/13 at 3:26 pm to
haven't ya'll heard? Europe is bottoming.

Money going back into European stocks and debt.

Don't worry, when everyone figures out that Europe ain't fixed, money will come roaring back to US stocks.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Carolinas
Member since Sep 2003
123729 posts
Posted on 8/15/13 at 4:37 pm to
quote:

Closest thing to arbitrage that I can see.

TBT is a one-way bet. Might be a good bet.
But in terms of arbitrage, L/S positions, L/S funds and/or Structured Products seem better options to me.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Carolinas
Member since Sep 2003
123729 posts
Posted on 8/15/13 at 4:39 pm to
quote:

Don't worry, when everyone figures out that Europe ain't fixed, money will come roaring back to US stocks.
Who knows?
We're diversifying towards Europe FWIW.
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
162175 posts
Posted on 8/15/13 at 4:43 pm to
quote:

Just FYI, That $2K is not "left over money", I invest before I pay any bills, buy any food, or buy any toys. It's off the top, it's paying yourself first. NOBODY gets paid before I pay myself, Not the utility company, not the bank, not THE frickING IRS. Now, I still pay those bills, but my priority is to myself and everyone else can wait in line.

That's a cute psychological game that you're playing with yourself

But let's be honest, you wouldn't be investing the money if you couldn't make the payments on your bills.
Posted by Vols&Shaft83
Throbbing Member
Member since Dec 2012
69876 posts
Posted on 8/15/13 at 5:07 pm to
quote:

That's a cute psychological game that you're playing with yourself

But let's be honest, you wouldn't be investing the money if you couldn't make the payments on your bills.



Obviously. And it is psychological. And it works. I'm not on a salary, my income fluctuates month to month, so I have to be disciplined. Back when I used to pay bills first, and then invest/save what was left over, I'd end up saving or investing very little. When I made my financial future a priority, I increased my investing 10 fold, and I have always had plenty left over to pay my bills and have fun with.


Posted by NC_Tigah
Carolinas
Member since Sep 2003
123729 posts
Posted on 8/15/13 at 5:38 pm to
quote:

Obviously. And it is psychological. And it works. I'm not on a salary, my income fluctuates month to month, so I have to be disciplined. Back when I used to pay bills first, and then invest/save what was left over
It will pay off . . . In Spades, Vol!

There are times I look back now, and wonder "How the H...., did this happen."

Good stuff.

Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89438 posts
Posted on 8/16/13 at 9:22 am to
quote:

It will pay off . . . In Spades, Vol!


I've had success doing that - I set my retirement contributions and vowed to "increase it until it hurts". I went from $0 to $40k in less than 40 months by "paying myself first" - and I did debt reduction and other investments, too (although a lot of that was with "found money" - extra military training events, life insurance proceeds, etc.)

How did that happen?

Another thing I highly recommend is the automatic mortgage payment, tied to your paycheck. That is the greatest psychological boon I've ever discovered - although it technically hits the bank account, I never see it reflected in the available balance. So, in essence, I pay myself first (never goes into the bank), and the mortgage second - everything else is literally child's play to pay.
Posted by Blakely Bimbo
Member since Dec 2010
1183 posts
Posted on 8/16/13 at 11:27 am to
quote:

Who knows?
We're diversifying towards Europe FWIW.


AND you will be out before it turns again. Nothing happens before the German elections end of Sept.

After that, got to wait and see.

VIX isn't forecasting a big US downturn yet.
Posted by nelatf
NELA
Member since Jan 2011
2296 posts
Posted on 8/16/13 at 12:43 pm to
I like CVX less than 120....I have taken a beating the last few days. In fact, I have endured an ~9% slide in the last 30 days.

Ugh....
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89438 posts
Posted on 8/16/13 at 12:51 pm to
quote:

I like CVX less than 120....I have taken a beating the last few days. In fact, I have endured an ~9% slide in the last 30 days.


It may be time to sell some puts...
Posted by nelatf
NELA
Member since Jan 2011
2296 posts
Posted on 8/16/13 at 1:48 pm to
quote:

It may be time to sell some puts...


Or take my toys and go home!!! Still up for the year - get out and wait for the next panic....I dunno
Posted by tirebiter
7K R&G chile land aka SF
Member since Oct 2006
9134 posts
Posted on 8/16/13 at 2:42 pm to
quote:

Well people like Robert Shilling


I call him by his given name, Robert Shiller....
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 8/16/13 at 2:45 pm to
I just get confused because he played the character Larry Sanders on The Larry Sanders Show.
Posted by ulsaint
Member since Oct 2007
2460 posts
Posted on 8/16/13 at 3:00 pm to
PM has been getting beat up lately, which I guess is good since my DRIP will just buy more.

But I just ran across this article regarding a pretty nice insider buy.
LINK
Posted by EA6B
TX
Member since Dec 2012
14754 posts
Posted on 8/16/13 at 3:57 pm to
quote:

Obviously. And it is psychological. And it works. I'm not on a salary, my income fluctuates month to month, so I have to be disciplined. Back when I used to pay bills first, and then invest/save what was left over, I'd end up saving or investing very little. When I made my financial future a priority, I increased my investing 10 fold, and I have always had plenty left over to pay my bills and have fun with.


Being successful in personal finance is probably 95% psychology. Knowledge of finance alone is pretty useless without the personal discipline to execute a long term plan, and any type of mental gymnastics that keep a person on track is usually a good thing.
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