re: ---2013 PGA Championship Official Thread--- Dufner pain train CHAMPIONSHIP

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Why are you only using majors in your comparison?

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Biggest stage, hottest lights, heaviest competition.

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Most of the fields sucked in Jack's era compared to Tiger's, so a top 10 in a major is much more difficult for Tiger to obtain than it was for Jack.

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Um...no.

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Um...no.

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um.....yes. that article says nothing about the depth. if you honestly think the fields were deeper back in jack's day, there is no helping you. you didn't even have the best players in the world playing the majors back then.

"In the 32 years from the 1947 PGA Championship to the 1979 PGA Championship, except for Gary Player, there was only one major played in the US that was won by a non-American --- the 1970 US Open, won by Tony Jacklin.

Similarly, hardly any Americans played in the British Open. When Gary Player won in 1959, there wasn't a single American star in the field. There were three players from the US, but they were not serious contenders. The best of the three was a 48-year-old amateur, who missed the cut by three shots.

The Big Three of Arnie, Jack, and Gary racked up five British Open wins between 1959 and 1968, and there were less than a dozen Americans in the field in any of them. There were only half a dozen in 1961, Arnie's first win, including two guys over 50 and an amateur. And since travel to Scotland was just as difficult from South Africa or Australia as it was from the US, it's probable that many top golfers from those countries skipped the Open as well."

Someone in an earlier post was asking how many players have won a major after the age of 40. Here's that list:

Only 33 of the last 410 major championships dating to the 1860 British Open have been won by a player in his 40s. Here's a look at the players, including the tournament and where it was played:

AGE 48

Julius Boros, 1968 PGA Championship, Pecan Valley

AGE 46

Jack Nicklaus, 1986 Masters, Augusta National
Old Tom Morris, 1867 British Open, Prestwick

AGE 45

Hale Irwin, 1990 U.S. Open, Medinah
Jerry Barber, 1961 PGA Championship, Olympia

AGE 44

Lee Trevino, 1984 PGA Championship, Shoal Creek
Robert De Vicenzo, 1967 British Open
Harry Vardon, 1914 British Open, Prestwick

AGE 43

Ben Crenshaw, 1995 Masters, Augusta National
Raymond Floyd, 1986 U.S. Open, Shinnecock Hills
Julius Boros, 1963 U.S. Open, The Country Club
Ted Ray, 1920 U.S. Open, Inverness
Old Tom Morris, 1864 British Open, Prestwick

AGE 42

Payne Stewart, 1999 U.S. Open, Pinehurst No. 2
Tom Kite, 1992 U.S. Open, Pebble Beach
Gary Player, 1978 Masters, Augusta National
Tommy Bolt, 1958 U.S. Open, Southern Hills
J.H. Taylor, 1913 British Open, Royal Liverpool
Willie Park Sr., 1875 British Open, Prestwick

AGE 41

Vijay Singh, 2004 PGA Championship
Mark O'Meara, 1998 British Open, Royal Birkdale
Mark O'Meara, 1998 Masters, Augusta National
Sam Snead, 1954 Masters, Augusta National
Henry Cotton, 1948 British Open, Muirfield
Harry Vardon, 1911 British Open
Old Tom Morris, 1862 British Open, Prestwick


AGE 40

Jack Nicklaus, 1980 PGA Championship, Oak Hill
Jack Nicklaus, 1980 U.S. Open, Baltusrol
Ben Hogan, 1953 British Open, Carnoustie
Ben Hogan, 1953 U.S. Open, Oakmont
Ben Hogan, 1953 Masters, Augusta National
James Braid, 1910 British Open, St. Andrews
Old Tom Morris, 1861 British Open, Prestwick


Breaking that down individually, the only players from the post-1960 era to win multiple major after they turned 40 are:

3 - Jack Nicklaus
2 - Mark O'Meara

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If Phil wins the FedEx, it will be a close race

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Is the FedEx one tourney or a few?

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lsugolf1105

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what's your point? jack won 3 after the age of 40. are you saying tiger can't do that?

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My "point" was simply posting facts. Somebody asked how many people had won majors after they turned 40. I was wondering the same thing so I looked it up and posted what I found. I offered no opinion and was not trying to make a point. How you implied that from my post I don't know. Seems like you are being a little defensive of Tiger.

Since you asked, the way I see it, to win a major a player has to be on mechanically "that particular week". Not only that, a player has to battle major championship nerves. The latter used to not be an issue at all for Tiger. Right now that is the main thing that is affecting Tiger in the majors in my layman's opinion. So, predicting who will win any given major is an exercise in futility to me. Also, predicting that any golfer will win 5 majors in the next 7-10 years is asking a lot for that golfer. There is not a single golfer playing today who I can say with over 50/50 confidence that I think they will win 5 majors in the next 7 years. However, Tiger is not any golfer. So, in my mind, I can conceive of Tiger Woods never winning another major and I can also see him winning 4 before he even reaches the age of 40 (winning 4 of the next 8). I have never used the words "can't do" when talking of Tiger Woods.

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You're joking right? Arnold Palmer, Tom Watson, Gary Player, Raymond Floyd, Sam Snead, Billy Casper, Lee Trevino, Johnny Miller.....I can go a lot longer.

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No, I'm not joking at all. Look at how many different guys have won majors in the past 5 years or so. There are 120+ players capable of winning every week on tour right now, maybe more. That number was considerably less than it was in the 60s and 70s.

Also, you gave me the top players across multiple eras. Show me the list of guys who missed the cut in that era. I'd bet you'd be hard pressed to recognize a name. Today, the list would be composed of major champions and hall of famers pretty much every week.

Nobody is gonna be suckin on anythang

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My "point" was simply posting facts. Somebody asked how many people had won majors after they turned 40. I was wondering the same thing so I looked it up and posted what I found. I offered no opinion and was not trying to make a point. How you implied that from my post I don't know. Seems like you are being a little defensive of Tiger.

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sorry. i thought you were someone else.

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Show me the list of guys who missed the cut in that era.

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Here's the Top 10s from Jack's Master's wins

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You're joking right? Arnold Palmer, Tom Watson, Gary Player, Raymond Floyd, Sam Snead, Billy Casper, Lee Trevino, Johnny Miller.....I can go a lot longer.




No, I'm not joking at all. Look at how many different guys have won majors in the past 5 years or so. There are 120+ players capable of winning every week on tour right now, maybe more. That number was considerably less than it was in the 60s and 70s.

Also, you gave me the top players across multiple eras. Show me the list of guys who missed the cut in that era. I'd bet you'd be hard pressed to recognize a name. Today, the list would be composed of major champions and hall of famers pretty much every week.

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You make good points. I amend what I said. I agree with you that the depth of talent may be stronger right now. However, I maintain that the quality of the Top 20 or so was as strong then as it is now, if not more so. That is a double edged sword. Depth of field makes the argument that "on any given Sunday" more players could be in contention. However, in Jack's days, when he played in a major he was playing against as many or more players who are among the GOAT throughout his career, as opposed to any golfer at this point in time. Unfortanately, throughout Tiger's career there have been few duels between him and players like Phil, who are among the GOAT. How many times did Jack have to figtht it out with Watson, Player, etc. Jason Dufner, Justin Rose and Adam Scott most likely won't be among those in the discussion of GOAT once their career is over but all can say they won a major and they did it in an era when Phil and Tiger were playing.

As for top players across era, I actually limited my list to players that Jack had to contend with during his career....he contended with Palmer and Snead at the beginning of his career, Tom Watson at the end and the others in the middle.....and there are other HOF golfers I didn't even list who Jack faced. One thing I have observed.......golfers in Jack's day didn't wilt under the pressure when Jack was in contention like players on the PGA tour did back in the early to mid 2000s when Tiger took the lead. At least we don't see that any more.