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Started By
Message
re: Barry Larkin says no one associated with PEDs will be elected to HOF
Posted on 7/24/13 at 4:15 pm to ballscaster
Posted on 7/24/13 at 4:15 pm to ballscaster
quote:
hat players cheated isn't an argument--it's a fact that we all know.
No it's not. Prove, with evidence, who used. Bonds never failed a test and was even tried in a court of law for obstructing justice and there's still no proof he took PED's. Bow, I can see keep Raffy out -- he failed a test administered by the league. But what about the hundreds of players who just have circumstantial cases against them, or worse, no evidence other than the fact we "know" they did it.*
*I should say I think every single pro athlete uses PED's with almost no exception. But I can't KNOW that.
Anyway, the system now is that guys are on the ballot, and people can vote on them. Eventually, the best players in people's memories will not be in the Hall and Cooperstown will be seen as less legitimate due to its failure to recognize one or two whole generations of talent. Attendance will decline and they will create a committee to cram some 80s/90s/00s players in the Hall.
Because the Hall needs induction ceremonies, and they need to be of universally recognized great players. They're ok this year (Maddux!), but the Hall does not want a decade of either no ceremonies or guys like Tony Perez getting inducted. Longterm, they can't keep them out and continue to be the Hall of Fame. It would be like have 20-40 Pete Roses. One, you can deal with.
3
Posted on 7/24/13 at 4:28 pm to ballscaster
You're not too intelligent for anyone in this thread, you're just too much of a douche for people to take you seriously.
If you can't see that it is inconsistent for known cheaters like Gaylord Perry and Don Drysdale (spitballers) to be included in the Hall while the present-day group of cheaters is left out in the cold then there's no hope for you.
As I said -- people try to get ahead however they can in sports. Sometimes they cheat. If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin', as my grandfather would say.
If you can't see that it is inconsistent for known cheaters like Gaylord Perry and Don Drysdale (spitballers) to be included in the Hall while the present-day group of cheaters is left out in the cold then there's no hope for you.
As I said -- people try to get ahead however they can in sports. Sometimes they cheat. If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin', as my grandfather would say.
Posted on 7/24/13 at 4:31 pm to CP3LSU25
quote:
Because they cheated.
better start kicking out the spit ball pitchers then.
Posted on 7/24/13 at 4:33 pm to Baloo
quote:Exactly. A plea bargain is far from being "the truth"
No it's not. Prove, with evidence, who used.
Posted on 7/24/13 at 4:33 pm to ballscaster
Just make a PED wing of the Hall.
Here is enshrined great feats by aid of science...
(besides, perhaps one day we will get off our moral high horse and realize...everyday and everyway people are using science and medecine to make them stronger, healthier and live longer...maybe one day, we won't care that someone over 35 has 25 year old testosterone?)
Here is enshrined great feats by aid of science...
(besides, perhaps one day we will get off our moral high horse and realize...everyday and everyway people are using science and medecine to make them stronger, healthier and live longer...maybe one day, we won't care that someone over 35 has 25 year old testosterone?)
Posted on 7/24/13 at 4:35 pm to Zamoro10
I hear that faker used PED's to beat cancer! Get him!
Posted on 7/24/13 at 4:38 pm to Baloo
quote:
Because the Hall needs induction ceremonies, and they need to be of universally recognized great players. They're ok this year (Maddux!), but the Hall does not want a decade of either no ceremonies
I think they will be fine short term
2014- Maddux & Frank Thomas
2015- Randy Johnson & Pedro
2016- Griffey
2018- Chipper
Aside from those who are 1st ballots HOFs you still have Tom Glavine, Vladimir Guerrero, Mike Mussina, Craig Biggio, Jack Morris, Trevor Hoffman, John Smoltz, Jim Thome who I think will get in.
Piazza, Pudge, Bagwell, Bonds, Clemens, & Manny, I have no idea if they get in or not. I don't think Palmeiro, Gary Sheffield, McGwire, or Sosa will get in.
Posted on 7/24/13 at 5:01 pm to King of New Orleans
quote:
you cant just keep them out because they did it
They can, and they should.
Posted on 7/24/13 at 5:05 pm to Baloo
quote:
No it's not. Prove, with evidence, who used.
dumb. There are plenty of failed drug tests and confessions of illegal drug use. Stop this silly crap. quote:Never said otherwise.
Bonds never failed a test and was even tried in a court of law for obstructing justice and there's still no proof he took PED's.
quote:They'll be voted on. If they don't make it, tough shite.
Bow, I can see keep Raffy out -- he failed a test administered by the league. But what about the hundreds of players who just have circumstantial cases against them, or worse, no evidence other than the fact we "know" they did it.*
Posted on 7/24/13 at 5:09 pm to Matisyeezy
quote:Which current voters knowingly voted for known cheaters and are hard lining against juicers in the Hall? List some names or your point holds no water. Stop worrying about whether there's hope for me and worry more about making a valid point for yourself.
If you can't see that it is inconsistent for known cheaters like Gaylord Perry and Don Drysdale (spitballers) to be included in the Hall while the present-day group of cheaters is left out in the cold then there's no hope for you.
Posted on 7/24/13 at 5:11 pm to ballscaster
quote:
Any baseball player who broke the law
Pitchers hit batters with intent to intimidate and injure all the time. If I did that outside of sports, I'd be thrown in jail.
Oh, but we're only talking about a specific kind of illegal here, eh?
This post was edited on 7/24/13 at 5:12 pm
Posted on 7/24/13 at 5:14 pm to ballscaster
quote:
Bonds never failed a test and was even tried in a court of law for obstructing justice and there's still no proof he took PED's
Bonds failed multiple tests
Posted on 7/24/13 at 5:16 pm to goldennugget
It would be stupid for them to do it. Just elect people like it didn't happen and make strict rules that ruin careers when players are caught. Eventually any player caught won't be able to have the field accomplishments the HoF would require.
I don't know why the baseball community is so stupid when handling this HoF issue. They let the shite happen in the first place. We aren't going to forget the last 10-20 years of baseball history. They just need to accept it and move on.
I don't know why the baseball community is so stupid when handling this HoF issue. They let the shite happen in the first place. We aren't going to forget the last 10-20 years of baseball history. They just need to accept it and move on.
Posted on 7/24/13 at 5:17 pm to Jcorye1
quote:And any time an umpire sees this happen, the pitcher's team is penalized by allowing the batter to take to first base. If egregious enough, the pitcher or manager may be ejected
Pitchers hit batters with intent to intimidate and injure all the time.
quote:So don't do it.
If I did that outside of sports, I'd be thrown in jail.
What a terrible point.
This post was edited on 7/24/13 at 5:18 pm
Posted on 7/24/13 at 5:19 pm to ballscaster
quote:You're one to talk Mr. Speeding Ticket.
What a terrible point.
This post was edited on 7/24/13 at 5:20 pm
Posted on 7/24/13 at 5:23 pm to Louie T
"He cheated and got in so I should be allowed to cheat and get in."
Crybaby shite.
Crybaby shite.
Posted on 7/24/13 at 5:55 pm to TigerintheNO
quote:
Bonds never failed a test and was even tried in a court of law for obstructing justice and there's still no proof he took PED's
Bonds failed multiple tests
He did, and IMO no reasonable person would argue that he wasn't using PEDs even in the absence of those tests. His change in physique was ridiculous and his associations on top of that were plenty damning.
There's a small amount of room for people to criticize the old time fans who claim there was no such thing as PED use in years gone by (greenies) but I have a problem with people pretending that's the same thing. PEDs like steroids and HGH have destroyed the competitive balance and shredded the record books.
I don't blame people who understand the history of baseball taking umbrage at the changes that steroids and HGH have wrought. I understand the younger folks who defend their childhood heroes leaping to excuse the modern drug era... I do have a little bit of a problem with the people who are older and understand baseball history pretending there's no difference between spitballs or greenies and steroids - they should have the perspective to understand that's like comparing a volkswagon with a tank
Posted on 7/24/13 at 5:59 pm to ballscaster
quote:
Which current voters knowingly voted for known cheaters and are hard lining against juicers in the Hall? List some names or your point holds no water
It's not a question of names, it's a question of principle. This blackballing of steroid era players is antithetical to the mission of the hall. As such, the sportswriters taking a hard line against alleged juicers are failing in their role as a voting population.
As for the second part, I'm not particularly invested in determining whether or not there's hope for you because it's abundantly clear you're a pretentious dumbass.
Posted on 7/24/13 at 6:10 pm to Matisyeezy
quote:Nothing wrong with the principle. The current writers are not hypocrites.
It's not a question of names, it's a question of principle.
quote:it would be antithetical to the mission of the museum (which includes plenty of Pete Rose stuff, for instance, as well as the B*nds ball), but it isn't antithetical to the mission of the hall. Inclusion in the hall is decided by election. Inclusion in the museum is decided, more or less, by existence and significance.
This blackballing of steroid era players is antithetical to the mission of the hall.
quote:No they are not. Not voting for someone who cheated is perfectly kosher.
As such, the sportswriters taking a hard line against alleged juicers are failing in their role as a voting population.
Posted on 7/24/13 at 6:28 pm to ballscaster
Frick the HoF. I choose who to remember who was truly great at the game. I'll always remember watching the years of McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds. Childhood favorites such as Piazza, Pudge, and Clemens. I'll pay no mind to any voter who votes with a personal bias from past to present.
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