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Should the Thunder have traded Harden?

Posted on 5/16/13 at 12:34 am
Posted by mattz1122
Member since Oct 2007
56414 posts
Posted on 5/16/13 at 12:34 am
Simmons has been critical of the Harden trade and yet again explained why in Part 3 of his NBA Trade Value column.


quote:

Think about where the Rockets were in October, when they were headed for 30 wins and looking at another season of "Don't worry, everyone, we have cap space and picks and assets, this is gonna work out, we swear!" Somehow they landed the league's best under-30 shooting guard, someone who is guaranteed to make the next seven or eight All-Star teams unless he gets injured, for one year of Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, the 12th pick in a lousy 2013 draft and a future Dallas pick. Let's be honest — that's a miracle. That was a franchise-saving trade. They didn't just give up three quarters and a dime for a dollar; they inadvertently got a $2 bill back.


quote:

In football, you can build around a franchise quarterback, draft smartly, protect your cap, repeatedly trade down for more assets and do everything else that Bill Belichick did since 2001. That mind-set doesn't work in basketball. You can find/afford three blue-chippers only if you're lucky. You can't "trade down" and assume you'll replace a blue-chipper with multiple pieces; it never really worked. You also can't assume that you're getting 10 more cracks at the Finals, or that your best players will stay healthy year after year after year. The '86 Rockets thought they had a perennial contender. So did the '88 Mavericks, the '91 Blazers, the '92 Cavaliers, the '93 Suns, the '94 Warriors, the '97 Bullets, the '03 Kings, the '05 Suns … but the truth is, you never know.

The Thunder easily could have kept together three of the top six guys on this list for one more year, then decided on their future this summer. They didn't. And they didn't because they didn't know James Harden was THIS good. That's why they kept Serge Ibaka over him, and that's why they didn't just say, "A year from now, we'll amnesty (the Soon-To-Be-Totally, Completely & Irrevocably Washed-Up) Perkins and keep Harden." It's one of the single biggest tactical mistakes any NBA contender has ever made — the modern equivalent of the Lakers freaking out after the '84 Finals, then dealing James Worthy to Detroit for one year of Kelly Tripucka, Tony Campbell and two future no. 1 picks.20

In The Book of Basketball, I wrote an entire chapter about the 33 biggest "What Ifs?" in NBA history. What if Portland had taken Jordan? What if Kareem had gone to the ABA? What if Lenny Bias hadn't overdosed? What if the '77 Blazers had kept Moses Malone? Well, "What if Oklahoma City had kept Durant, Westbrook and Harden together?" has already leapfrogged into that NBA What If? stratosphere. What a bummer. I wish we could press a RESET button and do this one over.



Kevin Martin was more than a solid contributor this season, but he's hardly someone who will be a solid contributor for the long-term. And NBA draft picks just aren't that valuable, especially in a year like this where the draft is weak. Seems like it would've been smarter to take your chances with your Big 3 that rivals Miami's, even it's just one year.

Posted by DrSteveBrule
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2009
12524 posts
Posted on 5/16/13 at 12:38 am to
I didn't see anyone with the ability to create a shot other than Durant after Westbrook went down. Their offense was putrid.

The Inside the NBA guys think Harden wouldn't have made a difference, but I think he would have.

Of course no one knew at the time Westbrook would get injured, but I don't know why they didn't hold onto him for this season.

Right now OKC is stuck with 2 big men that can't score.
Posted by jimithing11
Dillon, Texas
Member since Mar 2011
22532 posts
Posted on 5/16/13 at 12:39 am to
Should have never come to it. Harden should have stayed over Ibaka. Dude is massively overrated.

But when They chose Ibaka over Harden, they has to get something for him
Posted by kfizzle85
Member since Dec 2005
22022 posts
Posted on 5/16/13 at 12:39 am to
Media, the King of 20-20 hindsight. Good article, all media in all forms can go f themselves though.
Posted by okietiger
Chelsea F.C. Fan
Member since Oct 2005
42625 posts
Posted on 5/16/13 at 12:41 am to
Simmons will forever be critical of the Thunder so not surprised to see him jump to all kinds of conclusions. He's got a major ax to grind with OKC.

Google "Zombie Sonics" for further reading.
Posted by DrSteveBrule
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2009
12524 posts
Posted on 5/16/13 at 12:41 am to
quote:

Media, the King of 20-20 hindsight. Good article, all media in all forms can go f themselves though.


That's true, but the Harden trade was widely criticized when it happened.
Posted by mattz1122
Member since Oct 2007
56414 posts
Posted on 5/16/13 at 12:42 am to
Simmons hated the trade from the beginning. Said OKC should resign him before he was traded.
Posted by Keys Open Doors
In hiding with Tupac & XXXTentacion
Member since Dec 2008
32916 posts
Posted on 5/16/13 at 12:45 am to
Simmons said the same thing about the trade the day it happened. And while he hates Clay Bennett, I don't see how this has anything to do with that.

It was a terrible trade when it happened. And OKC is rolling in dough right now. If they really wanted to avoid a few million, they should have amnestied Perk or chosen Harden over the grotesquely overrated Ibaka.
Posted by DrSteveBrule
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2009
12524 posts
Posted on 5/16/13 at 12:47 am to
quote:

grotesquely overrated Ibaka.


Yea, the reasoning was that they eventually wouldn't be able to keep Ibaka and Harden.

Now Ibaka performed so badly he's probably going to get a shitty contract.
Posted by jacks40
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2007
11877 posts
Posted on 5/16/13 at 12:48 am to
quote:

Simmons will forever be critical of the Thunder so not surprised to see him jump to all kinds of conclusions. He's got a major ax to grind with OKC. Google "Zombie Sonics" for further reading.


And he has also said many complimentary things about OKC and hasn't referred to them as zombie sonics in a long time.

Even if he does still have an ax to grind, that doesn't make him wrong.
This post was edited on 5/16/13 at 12:55 am
Posted by MrBlue105
chillin with the BWC - anaconda
Member since Apr 2013
6602 posts
Posted on 5/16/13 at 12:52 am to
I don't think harden wanted to be 6th man anymore. He wanted his stardom.
Posted by Woopigsooie20
FREE HRV
Member since Mar 2010
60426 posts
Posted on 5/16/13 at 12:52 am to
quote:

Now Ibaka performed so badly


Wait, what? You do know he increased nearly every statistic this year, right? His PPG went up over 4 points.
Posted by DrSteveBrule
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2009
12524 posts
Posted on 5/16/13 at 12:53 am to
quote:

I don't think harden wanted to be 6th man anymore. He wanted his stardom.


Who really knows, but OKC disrespected him with the contract they offered him. They knew he wasn't going to agree to it.

quote:

Wait, what? You do know he increased nearly every statistic this year, right? His PPG went up over 4 points.


And after how badly he melted against a physical team, how much will OKC be willing to give to him?
This post was edited on 5/16/13 at 12:55 am
Posted by jacks40
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2007
11877 posts
Posted on 5/16/13 at 12:57 am to
quote:

And after how badly he melted against a physical team, how much will OKC be willing to give to him?


Well they traded Harden away for the poopoo plater, in order to keep Ibaka.

They lose both Harden and Ibaka that GM is going to look real bad.

ETA Didnt Ibaka sign an extension to keep him locked up for the next 3-4 years though?
This post was edited on 5/16/13 at 1:00 am
Posted by DrSteveBrule
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2009
12524 posts
Posted on 5/16/13 at 1:03 am to
Yeah nevermind, 4 year/48 mil
Posted by Woopigsooie20
FREE HRV
Member since Mar 2010
60426 posts
Posted on 5/16/13 at 1:04 am to
quote:

And after how badly he melted against a physical team, how much will OKC be willing to give to him?


He had 2 bad games. Hardly 'melted'. He had a double doubles in games 3, 4, 5.


And you guys do know that Ibaka is under contract for 3-4 more years, no?

Eta: I see that last part has been covered.
This post was edited on 5/16/13 at 1:05 am
Posted by MrBlue105
chillin with the BWC - anaconda
Member since Apr 2013
6602 posts
Posted on 5/16/13 at 1:08 am to
If harden was still under contract he wouldn't have signed a max with houston also lol. Okc fans are saying that miss against houston flr the win killed him ibakas spirit lol

. Anyway it's hard to go to the finals without your robin to Durant's batman. I think you gotta let it go. It wouldn't have been smart to lock up all your cap space for a 3rd ball handler behind durant and westbrook.
This post was edited on 5/16/13 at 1:09 am
Posted by okietiger
Chelsea F.C. Fan
Member since Oct 2005
42625 posts
Posted on 5/16/13 at 1:10 am to
Ibaka is overrated? He's improved every single season he's been in the league. He only struggled once Westbrook went down. And why no mention of Harden's playoff struggles? He literally could not have played worse against the Heat last year. And despite his fairly high point totals, he was very inefficient offensively against the Thunder in the 1st round.
Posted by BASED
yamamma the OG
Member since May 2012
3354 posts
Posted on 5/16/13 at 1:18 am to
Should've traded ibaka, Perkins, and a draft pick for a big time young center and a few role playing forwards.

Or maybe even ibaka for Demarcus cousins
This post was edited on 5/16/13 at 1:20 am
Posted by VerlanderBEAST
Member since Dec 2011
19353 posts
Posted on 5/16/13 at 1:28 am to
Should have kept Harden and Ibaka traded Westbrook and thats not hindsight because he got hurt. KD Ibaka Harden is just a better fit basketball wise.
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