Tony Soprano - Page 7 - TigerDroppings.com

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TigerRad
LSU Fan
Columbia, SC
Member since Jan 2007
4517 posts

re: Tony Soprano


quote:

you have no evidence of him starting with that belief


its the whole first page, and he refers back to it over and over after firing up the retrospect-o-scope

quote:

you dismiss all of the series analysis he does instead of giving it fair consideration.


I consider it fully and I love it. I also see it as selectively confirming what he already thinks.

quote:

your analysis by comparison makes no real effort to examine the Sopranos series material


Well Ive watched the whole series twice (years apart) but obviously I make no claim that I am the expert on the content that this guy is.

If I had no job or family (eta: and cared A LOT more), I bet I could go through the text and cherry-pick quotes and shots to build a case, but that will never happen.



This post was edited on 5/10 at 2:55 pm


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Sho Nuff
New Orleans Saints Fan
Hawaii
Member since Feb 2009
4861 posts

re: Tony Soprano


quote:

To me, the whole point is that we dont know. WE are the ones who got taken out. Ripped from Tony's world (whether he was too or not). The POINT is that we NEVER know exactly when life will end until it does. Especially in the world that the show created.

The moment in the diner was a routine moment like a myriad others. Was is it a moment of death? MAYBE. The guy in the members only jacket was a routine guy like thousands of others who could come in that diner. Was he the instrument of death? MAYBE.

The MAYBE is the whole POINT.

I was back and forth with this thought and being pretty sure Tony was dead. And that IS the point of Chase, I'm sure. We get taken away from The Sopranos life and they keep going. He's either going to jail or going to be killed anyway.

But after watching the ending a few times over the past few years, I have been convinced he got killed.

Then reading the link in here, there is no question for me anymore. I will just pose 1 question to those who don't think he's dead or are not sure; why cut to black before seeing Meadow? And why so sudden? Watch the last scene again. It's not a "fade to black", it is an abrupt, sort of misplaced "cut to black" (misplaced if their story was to just fade out).

Anyway, it doesn't bother me if someone thinks he's alive, as I wouldn't mind seeing some more haha.






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TigerRad
LSU Fan
Columbia, SC
Member since Jan 2007
4517 posts

re: Tony Soprano


quote:

And that IS the point of Chase, I'm sure.


thanks

quote:

why cut to black before seeing Meadow?


to create ambiguity

(only to have it subsequently dismissed by internet analysts )






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Sho Nuff
New Orleans Saints Fan
Hawaii
Member since Feb 2009
4861 posts

re: Tony Soprano


quote:

to create ambiguity

(only to have it subsequently dismissed by internet analysts )


I think it's where that theory falls short though. It still would have been created had we seen her walking in or him just looking up and seeing her. Then Black. Everyone would still be asking "what happened next?!"

Instead, very abruptly, and when Tony is still sort of lifting his head up to see who is walking in, "Cut to Black". It's actually perfect. I remember hating it at first

As Chase says, "It's all in there".






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molsusports
LSU Fan
Member since Jul 2004
26794 posts

re: Tony Soprano


quote:


its the whole first page, and he refers back to it over and over after firing up the retrospect-o-scope




I don't think I can apply enough confused emoticons here. I've read over that repeatedly and see nothing to indicate a bias prior to analysis. Instead I see a blogger who (having been told the answers are there for the viewer to deduce) sets about deconstructing the series to figure out the answer.

quote:

I also see it as selectively confirming what he already thinks.


then present a more thorough argument. the "no it isn't" argument only holds up when up against a "yes it is" assertion.







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OBUDan
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40378 posts

re: Tony Soprano


Not killed.

Audience was "offed." Ending our relationship with them.






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molsusports
LSU Fan
Member since Jul 2004
26794 posts

re: Tony Soprano


quote:

I think it's where that theory falls short though. It still would have been created had we seen her walking in or him just looking up and seeing her. Then Black. Everyone would still be asking "what happened next?!"

Instead, very abruptly, and when Tony is still sort of lifting his head up to see who is walking in, "Cut to Black". It's actually perfect. I remember hating it at first



one of the many interesting things noted in teh long discussion was how many people reported seeing Meadow in the shot for just a moment before the screen faded to black for the meaningful long pause before credits.

but there was no such image and there were no versions of the series finale that had her in the shot before it went black. it is just that those viewers implicitly knew Meadow was supposed to be in that shot (again, this was a predictable change to Tony's POV used throughout that scene) so completely that they fooled themselves into seeing her before the screen went dark.






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Sho Nuff
New Orleans Saints Fan
Hawaii
Member since Feb 2009
4861 posts

re: Tony Soprano


quote:

it is just that those viewers implicitly knew Meadow was supposed to be in that shot (again, this was a predictable change to Tony's POV used throughout that scene) so completely that they fooled themselves into seeing her before the screen went dark.


Exactly. Had Meadow actually been shown, I would completely go with the "we got removed from their life" theory. It would still have been ambiguous as showing Meadow does not mean Members Only didn't kill Tony anyway.

The fact that he doesn't get to see his daughter one last time speaks volumes.






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Sid in Lakeshore
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2008
21788 posts

re: Tony Soprano


quote:

Exactly. Had Meadow actually been shown, I would completely go with the "we got removed from their life" theory. It would still have been ambiguous as showing Meadow does not mean Members Only didn't kill Tony anyway.


They could have removed all doubt through Meadow's reaction. They could have shown her reaction to seeing Tony about to be Shot in the head, then black.






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Fox Mulder
Tulane Fan
Austin, TX
Member since Dec 2010
24619 posts
 Online 

re: Tony Soprano


But the next shot is Tony's POV or the whole scene is wasted the next shot is Tony's POV but he can't see meadow because he's dead





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Sid in Lakeshore
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2008
21788 posts

re: Tony Soprano


quote:

But the next shot is Tony's POV or the whole scene is wasted the next shot is Tony's POV but he can't see meadow because he's dead


I understand. I also understand you like it the way ot was filmed. Tony could have looked up and seen Meadow enter, then gotten killed from behind. It could have been more definitive, but the directors wanted it........wait for it......... INCONCLUSIVE.

I believe he is dead. I also believe they could resurrect him if they wanted because we were never shown the dead body.

Habeus Corpus.






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Fox Mulder
Tulane Fan
Austin, TX
Member since Dec 2010
24619 posts
 Online 

re: Tony Soprano


Oh I see. brilliant ending IMO





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Jake88
George Mason Fan
Member since Apr 2005
8392 posts
 Online 

re: Tony Soprano


I'm way behind in this discussion but so little of that scene is Tony's POV. What makes the last second his POV?

Again, I suspect that Chase has not made any decision on Tony. I know most want to attribute some artistic grand design to the scene but I think, albeit cynically, that the meaning of the ending all depends on whether some influential person with the show needs money in the future or begins to wax nostalgically and wants to do some sort of reunion episode or movie.






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molsusports
LSU Fan
Member since Jul 2004
26794 posts

re: Tony Soprano


quote:

I'm way behind in this discussion but so little of that scene is Tony's POV. What makes the last second his POV?




The bolded part is wrong and it is best covered in the long blog referenced first by Cocomo early in this thread. But from that blog here goes:

From the closing scene the first time Tony looks up as the bell on the door rings:



He sees:



The second time the door on the bell rings:



He sees:



The third time the bell on the door rings:



He sees:



The fourth time the bell on the door rings:



He sees:



The last time the bell on the door rings:



He sees:







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Jake88
George Mason Fan
Member since Apr 2005
8392 posts
 Online 

re: Tony Soprano


quote:

He sees:


We see.






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Sho Nuff
New Orleans Saints Fan
Hawaii
Member since Feb 2009
4861 posts

re: Tony Soprano


quote:

We see.



Although, not sure if you did if you don't think there was a lot of POV in that final scene.






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molsusports
LSU Fan
Member since Jul 2004
26794 posts

re: Tony Soprano


Yeah, he missed the point.

The entire scene is shot in a sort of deliberate perspective which are obviously more traditional movie shots... except those moments when you see what Tony sees when the bell to the door rings


ETA: sucks someone anchored this thread. The ending to the Sopranos is possibly the best ending to any series and probably the least well understood by the general viewers who considered themselves fans



This post was edited on 5/11 at 12:39 am


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