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Message
re: Tony Soprano
Posted on 5/10/13 at 10:50 am to Sid in Lakeshore
Posted on 5/10/13 at 10:50 am to Sid in Lakeshore
We did. He looks up to see meadow and it's black. He's just been hit and meadow saw it clearly because they have shown the POV from the door
When she walks through that's when I happens so instead of seeing meadow as we expect with the sequence, he sees black because he's dead. It really is the most brilliant and satisfying ending to a popular series I can think of
When she walks through that's when I happens so instead of seeing meadow as we expect with the sequence, he sees black because he's dead. It really is the most brilliant and satisfying ending to a popular series I can think of
1
Posted on 5/10/13 at 10:57 am to DelU249
quote:
The song, that being "Don't Stop Believing", is playing at the time which indicates to me at least in some way that the Sopranos live on, and what we've seen to that point is merely a glimpse into the life. We, the audience, have in essence been taken out.
you just blew my mind a bit there sir.
i still think he's dead.
Posted on 5/10/13 at 11:24 am to TDTGodfather
He's alive.
But whether he is alive or dead doesn't really matter. That wasn't the point of the final scene.
But whether he is alive or dead doesn't really matter. That wasn't the point of the final scene.
Posted on 5/10/13 at 12:34 pm to TreyAnastasio
quote:
So after reading that dudes opinion, you think there is no doubt he is dead?
correct. and why in the world is that strange to you?
he laid out an extensive and convincing argument for why that was true and how Chase left enough breadcrumbs for the audience to ultimately deduce it was true. read the link
Posted on 5/10/13 at 12:45 pm to molsusports
quote:
read the link
We've all read it.
The point is it's still one guys opinion (a very arrogant one) and as I pointed out earlier, he assumes a lot of facts not in evidence. He also relies heavily on Chase's public statements after the fact, which is intellectually dishonest. When you make art and put it out there, you surrender your ability to influence the interpretation. This blogger needs to stick to what is on the screen.
I admire his depth of knowledge and research. His point is well presented. But his opinion is no more "correct" than mine or TreyAnastasio's etc.
Yes there seems to be pattern of door opening and apparent Tony POV shots. So what. It still doesnt mean the cut to black = shot in the head for a 100% certainty.
Could it be?
maybe
Posted on 5/10/13 at 12:50 pm to TigerRad
quote:
Could it be?
PAY ATTENTION. YES.
Posted on 5/10/13 at 12:52 pm to Byron Bojangles III
quote:
PAY ATTENTION. YES.
haha Im glad you live in such a black/white world where a simple analysis by a blogger answers all of life's questions
the correct answer (and the entire point) is MAYBE
Posted on 5/10/13 at 12:58 pm to TigerRad
quote:
the correct answer (and the entire point) is MAYBE
this is contradictory.
the correct answer- Means there's a difinitive answer
MAYBE- is not a difinitive answer
Posted on 5/10/13 at 1:01 pm to TigerRad
quote:
We've all read it.
If you've read it you're above the average for internet conversations. Most people don't bother
quote:
But his opinion is no more "correct" than mine or TreyAnastasio's
Maybe one of you has made a point that I've missed. The blogger laid out an argument for how the whole series was designed for that last moment with a definitive outcome (and how the whole series has greater purpose and emotional impact if that outcome is the outcome). Have either of you made a similar argument?
Posted on 5/10/13 at 1:02 pm to Byron Bojangles III
quote:
the correct answer- Means there's a difinitive answer
MAYBE- is not a difinitive answer
glad you got my point
Posted on 5/10/13 at 1:05 pm to molsusports
quote:
Have either of you made a similar argument?
Here is my argument.
Did they show him being killed?
No, they did not.
So all the "evidence" doesn't really matter. Tony is, as I said on the first page, Schrodinger's Cat.
Posted on 5/10/13 at 1:06 pm to TigerRad
quote:
glad you got my point
i get your point. just dont contradict yourself.
Posted on 5/10/13 at 1:12 pm to molsusports
quote:
Have either of you made a similar argument?
hell no - this guy obviously spent many hours looking at this and thinking about it and constructing that essay - and researching every shite David Chase has taken in the last ten years. I will never care enough to do that and frankly IDGAF what Chase says in an interview years later.
I agree with a lot of what he says, but to me there is no "conclusive proof" of something happening that does not appear on screen or in the dialogue. Chase's "trail of breadcrumbs" is all stuff other people see in the work. It was left open to interpretation on purpose. He gave his, and its a great one.
I gave MY interpretation of the meaning of the ending (page 4 of this thread).
It is not a question of who's right or wrong. It is just a black screen.
Posted on 5/10/13 at 1:20 pm to TigerRad
quote:
and frankly IDGAF what Chase says in an interview years later
which is a defensible opinion. many people want to know the intention of an author but other's argue the work should be interpreted on the basis of what was written or filmed
I think a person who makes a careful study of a film/book/whatever the medium in question is can plausibly point to a different purpose but I'm pretty skeptical of someone who doesn't but instead makes a "knee-jerk" "because that's the way I think it was" argument.
quote:
It is just a black screen.
a black screen is not just a black screen when it is used at a specific time - if the author has made intent clear by editing sometimes it should be viewed as more than that (whether a monolith, reference to death, etc.)
Posted on 5/10/13 at 1:52 pm to molsusports
quote:
other's argue the work should be interpreted on the basis of what was written or filmed
absolutely believe this
quote:
I think a person who makes a careful study of a film/book/whatever the medium in question is can plausibly point to a different purpose but I'm pretty skeptical of someone who doesn't but instead makes a "knee-jerk" "because that's the way I think it was" argument.
Yeah the guy has done the work and I respect that. I take no issue with his opinions. I will never do what he has done. I just think the degree of ambiguity is greater than zero, and there is a good reason for that. His approach is to eliminate the ambiguity, as if that counts as a "win". His analysis and conclusion are self-fulfilling (see confirmation bias).
Posted on 5/10/13 at 2:02 pm to TigerRad
quote:
His analysis and conclusion are self-fulfilling (see confirmation bias).
why do you assume bias when he disagrees with your perspective? to make that accusation fairly I think you need to present a reason why he didn't approach the series with an open mind.
Posted on 5/10/13 at 2:11 pm to molsusports
quote:
accusation
more of an observation
confirmation bias is part of human nature
he started with the belief that the blank screen = POV = bullet in tony's head. That belief is admittedly well supported. I am saying it is not conclusive.
He then retrospectively analyzed the whole series and built a case that everything was leading up to that. The breadcrumbs are only breadcrumbs in retrospect, after you look at them through the lens of your previous conclusion.
Again, I am not calling him wrong. I am rejecting his "I'm right" approach. There is no right or wrong in this conversation. It is the interpretation of art, not a Holmesian deductive analysis to track a killer.
Posted on 5/10/13 at 2:19 pm to TigerRad
quote:
more of an observation
In light of what we're discussing (film interpretation based on evidence IMO) I think this is a intellectually malicious misrepresentation of what the analysis does.
He does not begin at teh end and explain backwards. he re-examines the whole series to understand which explanation of the ending makes the most sense. Again, if you wish to make a different argument then make an argument. Don't just throw mud on a guy with a different opinion.
Posted on 5/10/13 at 2:26 pm to molsusports
quote:
Don't just throw mud on a guy
no mud, like I said its human nature to see evidence that supports your subjective belief, we all do this
quote:
if you wish to make a different argument
I do not.
I gave my interpretation on pg4.
Posted on 5/10/13 at 2:36 pm to TigerRad
quote:
Don't just throw mud on a guy
no mud,
Here's your mud:
quote:
he started with the belief that the blank screen = POV = bullet in tony's head.
you have no evidence of him starting with that belief but in arguing he must have you dismiss all of the series analysis he does instead of giving it fair consideration.
your analysis by comparison is unfair especially because makes no real effort to examine the Sopranos series material but then accuses the person who did exactly that of subjective belief to dismiss his relevance.
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