Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany - Page 2 - TigerDroppings.com

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Antonio Moss
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Member since Mar 2006
28831 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


They should talk about France's primary energy source. France has so much excess energy that it makes a ton of money selling it to surrounding countries.





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Antonio Moss
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
28831 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


quote:

Is solar power cost effective today in Germany? No. Is Germany making an investment in the future? YES....and they are quickly emerging as a leader in renewable energy technology. At some point someone in the industry is going to hit an "eureka" moment and it is virtually guaranteed that the anti-science mentality


I nominate this for horribly ironic post of the year.






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fleaux
LSU Fan
section 0
Member since Aug 2012
6444 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


All i know is that the solar lights in my garden didnt light last night because it was rainy and cloudy all day......





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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
295635 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


quote:

.and they are quickly emerging as a leader in renewable energy technology

which basically means they have emerged as the leader in imaginary clothes for their various emperors

quote:

At some point someone in the industry is going to hit an "eureka" moment and it is virtually guaranteed that the anti-science mentality that is so pervasive in the US today will make that moment happen in another country and we will buying the result from them.

you realize that you're saying the hundreds of billions of dollars being spent are basically wasted on them right now, right?

if we were so anti-science, why are our PRIVATE industries investing so much in developing the science behind useful things like fracking and other petro exploration/extraction?

quote:

And here is the coupe-de-grace.....the US Taxpayer is subsidizing the German (and the rest of the worlds) technological R&D by providing the bulk of that nations (and all others) national security through our own massive defense budget. The money that Germany is spending on developing new technology is coming directly out of public funds that are not going toward their defense because they can rely on US military might to protect their interests.

this has nothing to do with solar power, and Pax Americana allows our private companies to trade internationally as well

quote:

if they buy Chinese panels they don't get the subsidy, period.

i think what you miss is that the panels don't have to be 100% German






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
295635 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


quote:

They should talk about France's primary energy source. France has so much excess energy that it makes a ton of money selling it to surrounding countries.

the article i posted did

the German overreaction to the Japanese nuclear issue was so irrational. nuclear power is awesome






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germandawg
Member since Sep 2012
2839 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


quote:

the German overreaction to the Japanese nuclear issue was so irrational. nuclear power is awesome


I agree with this statement. Nuclear power should be the wave as we speak....of course irrational fear is always a deterent to progress. There is an element of this in renewable energy also...an irratinaol fear to the "S" word...socialism. We are so afraid of socialism that any sort of public spending is viewed as a shift towards soviet style communism. It is funny that nuclear power in this country was, in large part, developed through public spending. Ironic actually....






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germandawg
Member since Sep 2012
2839 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


quote:

quote:


At some point someone in the industry is going to hit an "eureka" moment and it is virtually guaranteed that the anti-science mentality that is so pervasive in the US today will make that moment happen in another country and we will buying the result from them.



you realize that you're saying the hundreds of billions of dollars being spent are basically wasted on them right now, right?

if we were so anti-science, why are our PRIVATE industries investing so much in developing the science behind useful things like fracking and other petro exploration/extraction?



yes, it is true, they are not making any money as we speak, but this is the nature of technology....you have to break some eggs to make egg salad. It is only a matter of time until someone makes a breakthrough and the rest of world is going to beat a path to their door....and like most things it will probably be the US but we will wait until the last minute and have to spend more catching up than was spent getting to that point. If you have any doubt that at some point in time someone is going to develop solar energy that is cost effective and practical take a look at battery technology in the last 30 years. Solar is on a faster pace than batteries were in the early 80's yet we are convinced, as a nation, that oil is the only option available. It is truly astonishing and goes so much against the grain that it is truly astonishing.

quote:

And here is the coupe-de-grace.....the US Taxpayer is subsidizing the German (and the rest of the worlds) technological R&D by providing the bulk of that nations (and all others) national security through our own massive defense budget. The money that Germany is spending on developing new technology is coming directly out of public funds that are not going toward their defense because they can rely on US military might to protect their interests.



this has nothing to do with solar power, and Pax Americana allows our private companies to trade internationally as well


Yes, US Manufactures can sale their products worldwide also, but according to the right labor laws, regulation and taxes makes it impossible to do so. Meanwhile most of the industrialized world enjoys better labor laws, has more regulation, and individual taxes are much higher, yet they are able to manufacture products and sale them all over the world. If they were paying the freight for their products security around the world this would not be possible and US Manufacturers would be the only viable option. Of course the defense industry would probably have to see CEO's earning more like 20 times their workers salaries and they would probably have to only own 3 or 4 summer homes but life is tough all over. The fact that German and French and Japanese and Chinese manufacturers ship consumer products all over the world because they know (and understand) the US Navy's motto of "A Global Force For Good" means exactly what it says it means. I know that all of you would like to discount this but if you read the press in Europe and Asia you would know that this is the case and it affects every industry in the United States.






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germandawg
Member since Sep 2012
2839 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


quote:

if they buy Chinese panels they don't get the subsidy, period.



i think what you miss is that the panels don't have to be 100% German


Your right, the equipment has to be manufactured in the EU to enjoy the full subsidy. Of course the equipment to manufacture the equipment, something German manufacturers lead the world in, is made in Germany and Trucked to Poland and the Czech Republic. Then the equipment is trucked back to Germany and GERMANS install it. The thing that must be understood is that the EU has changed Europe dramatically....basically Poland and The Czech Republic and other less developed nations in the region are akin to the south in the US...sources of cheap labor for Manufacturers. The high wage jobs are still in Germany and in West Germany at that....






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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
22608 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


Whoever posted that is ignorant.

Germany is cutting energy subsidies and initiatives because they’ve run up costs…

LINK
quote:

Germany’s clean-energy lobbies said government plans to reduce support for the industry will stall any energy transformation and proposed three alternative measures to stabilize power prices.

The subsidy cuts announced yesterday, which aim to limit rising electricity costs for consumers, would greatly reduce investment in the industry, the country’s largest trade groups said in a joint statement led by the BEE renewable-energy federation. The alternative measures would prevent further price increases while allowing continued growth, they said.


And how healthy are German solar companies? They aren’t….


LINK

quote:

(Reuters) – German manufacturing conglomerate Bosch said it would shut down its solar energy operations, which posted heavy losses in 2012, the latest blow to the troubled German photovoltaics industry.

Bosch, one of the world's largest car parts makers, said on Friday it would end photovoltaics production early next year and would soon seek to sell parts of the business.

The unit, built around the takeovers of Aleo Solar and Ersol, chalked up a loss of about 1 billion euros last year.






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5483 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


Have any the liberals pointed out that solar power is more expensive to install in the USA because Obama crony GE was successful in getting the Commerce Department to impose anti dumping tariffs on the Chinese solar panel manufacturers?


We have very liberal tax incentives in Louisiana and in DC for solar power and quite a few people have taken advantage of those credits recently. Even with the credits it is still iffy financially to install them.






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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
22608 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


Also… who’s profiting under that wonderful EU Cap and Trade scheme? Coal plants.


LINK


quote:

Record Carbon Plunge Means Pain for Europe’s Utilities: Energy
By Ladka Bauerova & Tino Andresen - Apr 24, 2013 11:34 AM CT
European utilities, which have lost investors money for the past three years, can expect nothing but more pain after the European Parliament rejected a proposal to support prices in the world’s largest carbon-credit market.

Germany’s EON SE, GDF Suez (GSZ) SA of France and CEZ AS (CEZ) from the Czech Republic are among power suppliers whose earnings will drop because a majority of their energy comes from wind, natural gas and uranium, meaning they will be undercut by coal-fired plants, JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM) said. Burning coal benefits most from cheaper carbon permits because the fuel emits about twice as much carbon dioxide as natural gas.


The European Parliament on April 16 rejected a proposal to delay the issuance of some carbon credits, or allowances, triggering a record 35 percent drop in permit prices and sending the stocks of utilities down. Falling carbon prices weaken the incentive to invest in low-emission technologies such as wind, solar and nuclear power.






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germandawg
Member since Sep 2012
2839 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


I am convinced. Public investment in technology is a burden on taxpayers that fails to yeild adequate returns. Never mind that the most conservative estimates for programs such as NASA place the ROI at somewhere between 3 and 23 dollars for every dollar spent. It is a bad idea for the collective to invest in anything that produces such technology as personal computers, cordless tools and dyalisis machines. Who needs that sort of crap when you could be producing oil through fracking. After all fossil fuels are the only fuel mankind will ever have at its disposal, why even bother looking for an alternative.





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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
22608 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


quote:

Never mind that the most conservative estimates for programs such as NASA place the ROI at somewhere between 3 and 23 dollars for every dollar spent. It is a bad idea for the collective to invest in anything that produces such technology as personal computers, cordless tools and dyalisis machines

Has nothing to do with energy subsidies.

quote:

After all fossil fuels are the only fuel mankind will ever have at its disposal, why even bother looking for an alternative.
Nice strawman. No one has argued this.






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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
16308 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


quote:

germandawg


Tell us more about the intricacies of miranda!






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