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goatmilker
New Orleans Saints Fan
2014 drunkin Bobby award winner!
Member since Feb 2009
13268 posts
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re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


Why do you avoid the Constitutions lack of wording concerning States leaving the Union?

Because it makes this dumb and hateful thread even more dumb and hateful?






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Tigerlaff
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
9119 posts
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re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


quote:

Are Southerners who fly confederate flags from their trailer porches hypocrites for shouting "USA! USA! USA!" at sporting events featuring American teams?


Hey...









Hey...































Did you hear that a couple of Muslims from the religion of peace were responsible for the bombings??? They must have used some pretty scary guns!






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LSUnKaty
LSU Fan
Katy, TX
Member since Dec 2008
3298 posts
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re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


quote:

Care to reword that?
So they pledged allegiance to the Republic for which the flag stands. Why should they then be considered hypocrites for defending a right acknowledged and relied upon at said Republic's founding?






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Ace Midnight
LSU Fan
Ball, LA - Home, Sweet Home
Member since Dec 2006
26222 posts
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re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


quote:

Are Southerners who fly confederate flags from their trailer porches hypocrites for shouting "USA! USA! USA!" at sporting events featuring American teams?


Those aren't "Confederate" flags, as that term is traditionally used - they're Confederate army battle flags, and, no those people are not hypocrites. No more so than the hipsters wearing Che Guevara/Mao shirts, nor pan-African symbols on their vehicles.

The Klan guys/neo Nazi groups that have an "honor" guard that includes both the Stars and Stripes AND the flag of Nazi Germany - THOSE guys are hypocrites.

Keep it straight, yo.






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moneyg
LSU Fan
Member since Jun 2006
17910 posts

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


quote:

So, is it meaningless except as some feel-good group exercise?



As opposed to what?







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TerryDawg03
Georgia Fan
Member since Dec 2012
1427 posts

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


quote:

Why do you avoid the Constitutions lack of wording concerning States leaving the Union?


Walter Williams:

quote:

Some people have argued that secession is unconstitutional, but there’s absolutely nothing in the Constitution that prohibits it. What stops secession is the prospect of brute force by a mighty federal government, as witnessed by the costly War of 1861.


The rest of this is worth a read. Several states have it in their constitutions:
LINK /






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Champagne
New Orleans Saints Fan
French and Spanish Empire Border
Member since Oct 2007
10642 posts

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


How in Hell does Rex's stupid little thought here generate such activity on this board?

It's embarrassing.

STOP RESPONDING TO REX'S STUPID THOUGHTS.

. . . because he's trolling us.



This post was edited on 4/19 at 1:19 pm


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Rex
LSU Fan
Here, there, and nowhere
Member since Sep 2004
52380 posts

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


quote:

So they pledged allegiance to the Republic for which the flag stands. Why should they then be considered hypocrites for defending a right acknowledged and relied upon at said Republic's founding?

???

The CSA didn't recite the Pledge of Allegiance. I'm talking about TODAY'S southerners and you haven't answered my questions.

Why is the indivisibility of this nation pledge-worthy NOW while its division in 1861 is defended? What action(s) of the USA (the North) breached the principle of indivisibility?








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LSUnKaty
LSU Fan
Katy, TX
Member since Dec 2008
3298 posts
 Online 

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


quote:

The CSA didn't recite the Pledge of Allegiance. I'm talking about TODAY'S southerners and you haven't answered my questions.
I'm talking about today's "southerners" and I did answer your question all be it in-artfully. I'll try one more time.

From Declaration of Independence-
quote:

...mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
So this country was founded in part on the principle that it is the right and duty of free individuals to throw off oppressive and/or abusive Governments.

So I ask again. When today's southerners pledged allegiance to the Republic for which the flag stands, why should they be considered hypocrites for also defending a right acknowledged and relied upon at said Republic's founding?

What they are pledging allegiance to is the uniquely American form of government that protects their rights as free individuals from oppressive States. There is no contradiction therefor for them to so pledge and also to say that the southern states in the mid 19th century had the right to secede if they felt the form of government they were saddled with had become too oppressive. Whether it is wise or preferable or logical or 'right' for them to seceded is a separate question.

Also - the pledge says "one nation, under god, indivisible".. I'll leave the obvious question about atheists for another time and simply point out the definition of the word nation
quote:

na·tion [ney-shuhn]
noun
1. a large body of people, associated with a particular territory, that is sufficiently conscious of its unity to seek or to possess a government peculiarly its own: The president spoke to the nation about the new tax.

2. the territory or country itself: the nations of Central America.

3. a member tribe of an American Indian confederation.

4. an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family, often speaking the same language or cognate languages.

So you see that the Nation (i.e. the body of people) is separate from the State or Government.

And, according to the actual words of the pledge, it is the Nation that is indivisible, not the State.



This post was edited on 4/19 at 4:15 pm


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Wolfhound45
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2009
12794 posts

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


quote:

the principle of indivisibility


Where is this found in the U.S. Constitution?



Kind of hard to "breach" something that is not there.






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