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Tom288
Florida Fan
Member since Apr 2009
17562 posts

re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide


quote:

The sin isn't the issue. The heart condition is the problem. If you quit believing it becomes the issue.



And suicide in no way illustrates, much less guarantees, a loss of faith.

And it appears as if you're contradicting yourself. If a person suffering from severe depression, but is a devout Christian, takes their own life because they can't take the pain anymore yet maintains their faith in Christ's grace and his gift of forgiveness of all sins then are they not, in fact, placing their hope and faith in Christ and his gift of redemption?






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Paige
LSU Fan
Vice President of the OT
Member since Oct 2010
43674 posts

re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide


I read what you posted, as difficult as it was. I learned that stuff in third grade Sunday school

How many areas of your life do you apply this faith only methodology? You talked earlier about bettering yourself by going to school, working out, etc. Why don't you just have faith that God will make you a better person without any work on your part?






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jmcs68
LSU Fan
Heaven on Earth
Member since Sep 2012
24226 posts

re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide


quote:

I say you have to do nothing. Just believe. Put your faith in what Christ did at the Cross. There's nothing to work on. If you have your faith and eyes set only on Christ. He makes the change.


I don't think she is disputing that, but is saying that thru spreading the word of God you are doing his will.

And I like to think of God as a parent, and as a parent I would find someway of forgiving my child for committing suicide or any other so called sin.



This post was edited on 4/7 at 7:08 pm


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CajunRevolution
Columbia Fan
Member since Apr 2009
37697 posts

re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide


Sounds like grey area. I don't have all the answers.





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McLemore
Member since Dec 2003
11477 posts

re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide


quote:

So Christ's sacrifice was powerful enough to forgive every sin except for suicide? That makes sense...


I agree, that makes no sense.

i'm not sure how CR could make that claim about "Saul, Judas, etc." not going "to heaven," much less try to correlate it causally with suicide. and secondly, Judas committed suicide before Christ died, so there's a chronological issue here (but see the "Christ's sacrifice was outside of time" idea--same would apply to King Saul).






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Festus
LSU Fan
With Skillet
Member since Nov 2009
62309 posts

re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide


quote:

I'm not judging their heart. God will if they give up on their faith. Whether they gave up on that faith, or quit believing...only God knows.

Directly contradicts this statement you just made:
quote:

The problem with suicide is of you give up on that faith








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Tom288
Florida Fan
Member since Apr 2009
17562 posts

re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide


quote:

Your salvation is solely dependent on faith. The problem with suicide is of you give up on that faith


That's utter horse shite. No one claims that a Christian who tells a lie does so because they've given up on their faith. There seems to be this double standard when it comes to suicide in respect to virtually every other sin, yet there is no theological basis for it.






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CajunRevolution
Columbia Fan
Member since Apr 2009
37697 posts

re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide


quote:

I read what you posted, as difficult as it was. I learned that stuff in third grade Sunday school


Nobody said it was difficult. How's that application of those concept coming?

quote:

How many areas of your life do you apply this faith only methodology? You talked earlier about bettering yourself by going to school, working out, etc. Why don't you just have faith that God will make you a better person without any work on your part?


As much faith as I have, I'm not going to wake up in shape or with a Masters.






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Paige
LSU Fan
Vice President of the OT
Member since Oct 2010
43674 posts

re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide


Ok you're a retard. Plain and simple. I'm done

I do not believe that works are what get you to Heaven. Salvation comes only through faith. I think you work to become a BETTER CHRISTIAN






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jmcs68
LSU Fan
Heaven on Earth
Member since Sep 2012
24226 posts

re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide


quote:

I do not believe that works are what get you to Heaven. Salvation comes only through faith. I think you work to become a BETTER CHRISTIAN


Well said Paige.






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CajunRevolution
Columbia Fan
Member since Apr 2009
37697 posts

re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide


I'm not seeing a contradiction. The issue here is faith. I believe suicide is a statement about your faith. But I'm not the judge. The Lord will make that call.

Why would I quit if I thought there was deliverance or he would change the situation.






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Paige
LSU Fan
Vice President of the OT
Member since Oct 2010
43674 posts

re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide


What about the retard part? Spot on right?





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Tom288
Florida Fan
Member since Apr 2009
17562 posts

re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide


I've never understood how the faith vs. works argument ever became difficult for people to understand. Faith, through grace, saves, yet faith without works is dead. So while it is faith that saves, works are the measuring stick of whether or not faith is authentic. If a Christian lives by faith then they can't help but produce good fruit (works) in their lives, which is precisely why Christ says that the tree is judged by the fruit it produces. So it is with faith. It's not that faith requires works, it's that authentic faith makes "works" inevitable.





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CajunRevolution
Columbia Fan
Member since Apr 2009
37697 posts

re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide


quote:

Ok you're a retard. Plain and simple. I'm done I do not believe that works are what get you to Heaven. Salvation comes only through faith. I think you work to become a BETTER CHRISTIAN


Yeah, I'm definitely wrong about you believing in works. You just used the point of "work" to become a better Christian.

There are only Christians. Not "better" ones. You can't work to do anything. That's the problem YOU






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Festus
LSU Fan
With Skillet
Member since Nov 2009
62309 posts

re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide


quote:

I'm not seeing a contradiction.

Don't know what to say...







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CajunRevolution
Columbia Fan
Member since Apr 2009
37697 posts

re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide


You're trying to get me to make a blanket statement...all go to hell. I'm not playing God.

If their faith is preserved, they go to heaven. I believe suicide though is a statement of faith.



This post was edited on 4/7 at 7:18 pm


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McLemore
Member since Dec 2003
11477 posts

re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide


quote:

I think you work to become a BETTER CHRISTIAN


so how do you define Christian, in that context?






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McLemore
Member since Dec 2003
11477 posts

re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide


quote:

I believe suicide though is a statement of faith.


so is denying Christ thrice. So is arguing on the internet.






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Tom288
Florida Fan
Member since Apr 2009
17562 posts

re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide


quote:

Yeah, I'm definitely wrong about you believing in works. You just used the point of "work" to become a better Christian.

There are only Christians. Not "better" ones. You can't work to do anything. That's the problem YOU



If the most important aspect of Christianity is the relationship the believer has with Christ, then works are absolutely required. A relationship is a two way street and requires effort on the parts of both parties. So when a Christian gets up in the morning to read the Word before going to work, or goes to a study group to learn more about God's Word, they are performing works in order to strengthen the relationship they have with their savior. Arguing against the notion that works are what gets you to Heaven is arguing against a point she hasn't made. Works will not get you to Heaven, but works, i.e. effort and actions taken by the believer, are crucial in strengthening the relationship between God and the believer. How else do you grow your faith if not by works, by exercising it, challenging it?



This post was edited on 4/7 at 7:21 pm


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jmcs68
LSU Fan
Heaven on Earth
Member since Sep 2012
24226 posts

re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide


CR-how do you feed your faith? What keeps you close to God?

Working to become a better person in Gods eyes is what carries me thru my week. It enriches my faith.








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