The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written... - Page 3 - TigerDroppings.com

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FT
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


LINK





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dr smartass phd
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


Go here, download the hi res original BoR and at Article 4, the comma is there

LINK


Note: The capitalization and punctuation in this version is from the enrolled original of the Joint Resolution of Congress proposing the Bill of Rights, which is on permanent display in the Rotunda of the National Archives Building, Washington, D.C.








This post was edited on 3/31 at 11:35 pm


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FT
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


Another, better link. The version actually ratified by Jefferson has the comma removed.





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FT
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


But that's not how it was ratified; the comma shouldn't be there.





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RollTide1987
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


quote:

The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


No it really isn't. The problem is we have so many people in this country who are ignorant of history and the realities of 18th Century America. In those days, very few people were in favor of a professional army that was subservient to the federal government. What easier way to trample a citizen's rights than with a state-sanctioned police force? 18th Century America believed the army should be made up of the militia. Citizen soldiers called up at a moment's notice to fight for their homes. Hence why the term "well regulated" is in the amendment. "Regulated" in 18th Century America didn't mean what it does in the context of today. No. "Regulated" meant "well-trained." If you were going to have a militia made up entirely of the people, they are going to need to know what they are doing if indeed war breaks out.

Granted we have shifted away from this kind of army in favor of a more professional one, but the spirit of the amendment still remains. The Founding Fathers wanted every citizen to own a gun. Not for the ability to hunt or shoot for sport, but for the ability to protect themselves against the aggression of an over-authoritative federal government.






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dr smartass phd
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


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But that's not how it was ratified; the comma shouldn't be there.


I'm giving you original government documents and you're giving me Joe Blow






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RockyMtnTigerWDE
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


quote:

I'm giving you original government documents


You should know better than that...originals have no place in modern debate over the constitution.






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LaBornNRaised
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


Are you seriously trying to say that men who were 10 times smarter than you fricked up how they wrote something?

Maybe you are just too stupid to understand it ...






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FT
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


quote:

Are you seriously trying to say that men who were 10 times smarter than you fricked up how they wrote something?
They had IQ's of 1420?!

Seriously, much smarter people than you have serious issues with the way the amendment is worded, especially since the first amendment doesn't begin with "The ability to express one's views being essential to the nation's political thought..." Only the second amendment states an intent. That intent is driven directly toward the importance of a militia, not hunting or self defense.






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RogerTheShrubber
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


I'm guessing interpreting amendments written so long ago, any of them we personally disagree with will be
poorly written.






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FT
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


quote:

I'm giving you original government documents and you're giving me Joe Blow


The original documents you're giving me prove, literally, nothing. In fact, the original document you're showing me proves less than nothing. My assertion is that the original document includes the comma and that the versions ratified by the states do not. I'll see if I can find an original of one of those documents, but the document you posted, again, is entirely useless for the purposes of this discussion.






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dr smartass phd
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


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Maybe you are just too stupid to understand it


I've got a 188 IQ, thank you very much.






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FT
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


quote:

I'm guessing interpreting amendments written so long ago, any of them we personally disagree with will be
poorly written.

Sorry, are you suggesting that I personally disagree with the second? Because as it is, I can't make out what it means. In the context of the rest of the constitution, it seems blindingly obvious that ownership of guns is a privilege, not a right, unless as part of a militia. Still, that's not how it's ever been interpreted.

This is exactly my point. I own a gun (several, actually). I have no problem with private gun ownership. The only subject of this thread is whether or not the amendment itself makes clear what it intends to do. I think it sort of does, but constitutional scholars disagree with the way I am forced, given my understanding of English, to understand it.






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Sentrius
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


I'm pretty sure the framers left the constitution vague for a good reason so it could apply to today's time. Loose but very clear.

If they had written it pretty strictly, it woud have only fit the time period it was written IMO.






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RogerTheShrubber
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


quote:

it seems blindingly obvious that ownership of guns is a privilege, not a right, unless as part of a militia. Still, that's not how it's ever been interpreted.


Funny, I don't see that limitation at all. How do you know it's not saying a ell armed citizenry is necessary for a militia?



This post was edited on 4/1 at 1:15 am


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FT
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


quote:

[Many] have serious issues with the way the amendment is worded, especially since the first amendment doesn't begin with "The ability to express one's views being essential to the nation's political thought..." Only the second amendment states an intent. That intent is driven directly toward the importance of a militia, not hunting or self defense.






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dr smartass phd
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


He's not getting, the document I linked was the one ratified by Congress in 1791.





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IceTiger
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


No matter where you put a comma, in any clause that has "people's right" and "shall not be infringed"it is abundantly clear they didn't want the people's right infringed...whatever that right may be





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RogerTheShrubber
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


quote:

I'm pretty sure the framers left the constitution vague for a good reason so it could apply to today's time. Loose but very clear.


Probably. There are more than one amendment that is fuzzy in the light of modern interpretation. It's clear they intended the citizenry to be armed. We can debate all we ant about that necessity in modern times.






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Interception
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


The 2nd Amendment is a right, not a privilege.

Anyone who says otherwise is a lying sack of shite.






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