Property and Taxation... - Page 2 - TigerDroppings.com

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joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
21247 posts

re: Property and Taxation...


quote:

Then aren't you guilty of theft?


I am not guilty of theft, no.

quote:

But paying for something would make it mine, wouldn't it?


Not necessarily.

quote:

And since you accept no ownership of the entity known as the United States of America, anything you take from it is theft, isn't it?


The "United States of America" doesn't actually exist and can't own anything. Only individuals can exist and only individuals can own things. The individuals that comprise the government steal from many people and unevenly disburse those stolen funds. Those individuals are the thieves, not the ones who accept the thief's presents.






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FT
Georgia Tech Fan
Aston Villa Supporter
Member since Oct 2003
13927 posts
 Online 

re: Property and Taxation...


quote:

Not necessarily.
What makes something mine?
quote:

The "United States of America" doesn't actually exist and can't own anything. Only individuals can exist and only individuals can own things. The individuals that comprise the government steal from many people and unevenly disburse those stolen funds. Those individuals are the thieves, not the ones who accept the thief's presents.

Can businesses exist?






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joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
21247 posts

re: Property and Taxation...


quote:

What makes something mine?


An appropriate claim over the thing.

quote:

Can businesses exist?


Techinically no. Only individuals working together can exist.






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FT
Georgia Tech Fan
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Member since Oct 2003
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re: Property and Taxation...


quote:



An appropriate claim over the thing.
Does having paid for something not constitute an appropriate claim?

quote:


Techinically no. Only individuals working together can exist.

Is it possible to name those collections of individuals?






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joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
21247 posts

re: Property and Taxation...


quote:

Does having paid for something not constitute an appropriate claim?


Not necessarily

For example: I pay $200 for a watch. The watch was stolen by the person I bought it from. The watch is still owned by the owner who it was stolen from even if i am in possession of it.

quote:

Is it possible to name those collections of individuals?


Sure. But it is important to realize that it is just a collection of individuals and not a "thing" itself.



This post was edited on 3/27 at 12:35 am


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FT
Georgia Tech Fan
Aston Villa Supporter
Member since Oct 2003
13927 posts
 Online 

re: Property and Taxation...


quote:

For example: I pay $200 for a watch. The watch was stolen by the person I bought it from. The watch is still owned by the owner who it was stolen from even if i am in possession of it.

So you do intensive research on every item you are in possession of to ensure that you haven't committed theft, or do you assume that things you pay for are things you own?

quote:



Sure. But it is important to realize that it is just a collection of individuals and not a "thing" itself.
So does the collection of individuals known as the United States Government exist?






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joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
21247 posts

re: Property and Taxation...


quote:

So you do intensive research on every item you are in possession of to ensure that you haven't committed theft, or do you assume that things you pay for are things you own?


Buying something that is stolen isn't theft.

But, I do assume the things I pay for I own.

quote:

So does the collection of individuals known as the United States Government exist?


If by that you mean the individuals that comprise the countless bureaucracies, federal courts, executive and legislative branch, then yes.






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FT
Georgia Tech Fan
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Member since Oct 2003
13927 posts
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re: Property and Taxation...


quote:


But, I do assume the things I pay for I own.
If you don't own them, and someone else does, but you're in possession of them, do you have any obligation to seek out the person who's been stolen from and return their things?

quote:

If by that you mean the individuals that comprise the countless bureaucracies, federal courts, executive and legislative branch, then yes.



And you acknowledge that it is, ultimately, the people that pay for those things?






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joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
21247 posts

re: Property and Taxation...


quote:

If you don't own them, and someone else does, but you're in possession of them, do you have any obligation to seek out the person who's been stolen from and return their things?


No. Maybe a moral obligation.

quote:

And you acknowledge that it is, ultimately, the people that pay for those things?


I don't acknowledge that.






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FT
Georgia Tech Fan
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Member since Oct 2003
13927 posts
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re: Property and Taxation...


quote:


No. Maybe a moral obligation.
Fair enough.
quote:


I don't acknowledge that.
Do you acknowledge that the government's money does come from humans?






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joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
21247 posts

re: Property and Taxation...


quote:

Do you acknowledge that the government's money does come from humans?


Yes.






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FT
Georgia Tech Fan
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re: Property and Taxation...


So, do humans own the government?





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joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
21247 posts

re: Property and Taxation...


quote:

So, do humans own the government?


The government doesn't exist.






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FT
Georgia Tech Fan
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re: Property and Taxation...


So, we can't name the groups of people that jointly own something?





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joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
21247 posts

re: Property and Taxation...


quote:

So, we can't name the groups of people that jointly own something?


Yes we can, but no individuals own "the government"






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FT
Georgia Tech Fan
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Member since Oct 2003
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re: Property and Taxation...


So people that pay for things don't own them?





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olgoi khorkhoi
Bucknell Fan
priapism survivor
Member since May 2011
2942 posts

re: Property and Taxation...


this is deep. Bravo, fightin tiger.





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joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
21247 posts

re: Property and Taxation...


quote:

So people that pay for things don't own them?


Sure, but people don't pay for government.






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FT
Georgia Tech Fan
Aston Villa Supporter
Member since Oct 2003
13927 posts
 Online 

re: Property and Taxation...


quote:



Sure, but people don't pay for government.
But you acknowledged that the money comes from humans, and that humans that pay for things own them. Explain.






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joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
21247 posts

re: Property and Taxation...


quote:

Explain


Individuals don't pay for government. There money is stolen from them.






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