The World According to Dick Cheney - Page 3 - TigerDroppings.com

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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
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re: The World According to Dick Cheney


quote:

With the possibility of WMD - both nuclear and biological - I see it a responsibility of our government to take pro-active stances in protecting our few allies abroad - especially in the Middle East - and in some instances, removing threats from hostile regimes.

Nations don't have allies, only interests. Regimes only become hostile to us for a reason. Can you think of anything that the U.S. has done over the last 60 years that would make Iranians like us? We didn't even apologize to them after we accidentally blew one of their passenger airliners out of the sky.






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Jbird
Iowa Fan
In Odramaville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
16563 posts

re: The World According to Dick Cheney


quote:

Regimes only become hostile to us for a reason


Copy all fault lies with the U.S.






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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
51747 posts

re: The World According to Dick Cheney


quote:

Can you think of anything that the U.S. has done over the last 60 years that would make Iranians like us?
Really?

That's how it works?







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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
17451 posts

re: The World According to Dick Cheney


quote:

Really?

That's how it works?

You still haven't answered the question.






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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
17451 posts

re: The World According to Dick Cheney


quote:

Copy all fault lies with the U.S.


"The terrorists were over here because we were over there. Terrorism is the price of empire. If you do not wish to pay the price, you must give up the empire." - Pat Buchanan

"Free people do not relinquish their security. This is contrary to Bush's claim that we hate freedom. Let him tell us why we did not strike Sweden, for example." - Osama bin Laden






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Jbird
Iowa Fan
In Odramaville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
16563 posts

re: The World According to Dick Cheney


Again all fault lies with the U.S. thanks





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ChineseBandit58
LSU Fan
west of the pines
Member since Aug 2005
9744 posts

re: The World According to Dick Cheney


quote:

ations don't have allies, only interests. Regimes only become hostile to us for a reason. Can you think of anything that the U.S. has done over the last 60 years that would make Iranians like us? We didn't even apologize to them after we accidentally blew one of their passenger airliners out of the sky.


quote:

By George C. Wilson Washington Post Staff Writer Monday, July 4, 1988; Page A01 A U.S. warship fighting gunboats in the Persian Gulf yesterday mistook an Iranian civilian jetliner for an attacking Iranian F14 fighter plane and blew it out of the hazy sky with a heat-seeking missile, the Pentagon announced. Iran said 290 persons were aboard the European-made A300 Airbus and that all had perished. "The U.S. government deeply regrets this incident," Adm. William J. Crowe Jr., chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told a Pentagon news conference.


Now I don't know what you mean by "apology" but this fits the bill to me.

Nations don't need to apologize to other nations - they just need to set things right. We paid millions of dollars in compensation to the families. Dollars don't replace lives, but it is the only avenue left after the fact.

This incident was a cluster-frick of the highest degree. Someone should have apologized to the US populace for having such an obviously face-palm failure that allowed this tragedy to occur.

Hopefully, some changes in procedure were implement to lessen the chances it would ever occur again.

However, we cannot expect perfection in any human endeavor. It is necessary to take all practical precautions and to implement changes to prevent recurrances when failures happen. But you cannot withdraw from trying just because you may have failed - if the failure was in good faith a true failure and not a reckless disregard of proper operation.






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DvlsAdvocat
Alabama Fan
Your Mom's House, AL
Member since Jul 2007
24491 posts

re: The World According to Dick Cheney


quote:

Can you think of anything that the U.S. has done over the last 60 years that would make Iranians like us?


Well, we blunted then removed Saddam Hussein, and allowed them (Iran) to extend their reach across more of the middle east. The exact power vacuum that Dick Cheney warned about and used as the validation for not removing Saddam in 1991.



This post was edited on 3/27 at 10:26 am


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TT9
Alabama Fan
Global Warming
Member since Sep 2008
49661 posts

re: The World According to Dick Cheney


quote:

Well, we blunted then removed Saddam Hussein, and allowed them (Iran) to extend their reach across more of the middle east. The exact power vacuum that Dick Cheney warned about and used as the validation for not removing Saddam in 1991.
this, exactly.






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WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
15038 posts

re: The World According to Dick Cheney


quote:

Ok - in my view you are mixing libertarian views with conservative views

Bull shite.

The "Libertarian" wing of the republican party is simply the conservative wing of an otherwise liberal party. Changing names only leads to mission creep and confusion.

quote:

With the possibility of WMD - both nuclear and biological - I see it a responsibility of our government to take pro-active stances in protecting our few allies abroad...

Horse shite.

Should we invade North Korea, Pakistan, India and Israel - and any other soverieng nation that our 'intelligence' deems to have dangerous weapons?

We have MANY allies abroad, most of whom rely on our welfare system to fund their own defenses. We have to borrow money to extend our defense perimeter to our allies. Why don't they just borrow the money themselves and spend it on their defenses as they see fit.

quote:

especially in the Middle East - and in some instances, removing threats from hostile regimes.

ESPECIALLY horse shite.

How much money do we have to borrow to protect THESE (rich) gangsters...?



...and as far as going into Iraq in the first place, was it REALLY a matter of liberating the people of the Arab EMIRATE?

quote:

I see the role of government as protecting our PEOPLE, not just our borders

More liberal mission creep. You go abroad as an American citizen, you take your own risks.

The trick is to stop interfering in the internal affaiors of soveriegn nations in order to minimize the resentment generated against us as a nation, and us as individuals travelling abroad. We should strengthen our economy and stop meddling such that everyone in the world wants to trade with us and our 'emissaries' are welcome anywhere. THAT, my friend, is TRUE conservatism. Any other rationalization for global empire is liberalism regardless of what you want to call it.

quote:

I don't envision it to be even remotely possible for anyone to INVADE this nation.

I agree, which is why we need to SEVERLY downsize our military - a very conservative view that is often confused with liberalism.

quote:

The only invasion we should fear is the illegal invasion from across the Mexican border which is going to collapse our economy.

Do you suggest we invade Mexico? After all, they pose more of a direct threat to our borders than any other nation on earth - including theones we've invaded on the pretense of defending our 'national interests'?

The problem with Mexico is VERY simple. The government is corrupt and the economy concentrates wealth at the very top of the population. The economics for those on the bottom are extremely bleak. Therefore, since the lower class has virtually no political power, they vote with their feet and leave. This is an economic problem that requires an economic solution. A fence on the border is ridiculous, a wall has NEVER stopped economic forces in the past, and won't now. SEE: Great Wall of China and Hadrians Wall.

In addition to the lower classes leaving due to economic problems, there are also political problems that are driving Mexicans away from their homes (remember, it takes an enormous stress in order to get a population to leave their home), these problems arise from the economic concentrtion of wealth as well as the corrupt political climate which leaves political vacuums locally. These vacuums are being filled by gangsters/'drug lords'. These gangsters want to increase their political power within the vacuum through force arms. In order to obtain arms, these gangsters need some commodity with which to trade for these arms. They look at the market and see where there is market demand for commodities they have available to them - drugs. Not only is there a high demand for drugs across their northern border, but the illegal nature of which acts as a price support. Presto, supply of commodities at virtually no cost, proximal market demand for product, government price support for the commodities.

The 'invasion' from Mexico is not 'illegal', it is completely in accordance with the laws of economics.






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WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
15038 posts

re: The World According to Dick Cheney


quote:

Again all fault lies with the U.S. thanks

So you're saying all of our problems are everyone else's fault?

Way to take responsibility for your actions.






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Jbird
Iowa Fan
In Odramaville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
16563 posts

re: The World According to Dick Cheney


quote:

Way to take responsibility for your actions


My actions?






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WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
15038 posts

re: The World According to Dick Cheney


quote:

My actions?

'One's' actions.

Don't avoid the point, why should we just blame everyone else for our problems? Wouldn't that be irresponsible?






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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
16314 posts

re: The World According to Dick Cheney


You calling obama irresponsible? That's racist.





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Jbird
Iowa Fan
In Odramaville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
16563 posts

re: The World According to Dick Cheney


quote:

Don't avoid the point, why should we just blame everyone else for our problems? Wouldn't that be irresponsible?


Sure, that wasn't hackfan's point, he basically said 60 years of our doing is the only reason we have problems in the ME.






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WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
15038 posts

re: The World According to Dick Cheney


quote:

Sure, that wasn't hackfan's point, he basically said 60 years of our doing is the only reason we have problems in the ME.

And then you derided him by saying, "Oh sure, just blame US!"

What if it is mostly our fault? I mean, after all, it's mostly due to our actions. Shouldn't we own up to them, or should we just continue to deride the "Blame us" crowd and go on thinking that if we just kill enough people, blow up enough shit, and terrorize the rest with threats of violence, everything will work out?






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Jbird
Iowa Fan
In Odramaville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
16563 posts

re: The World According to Dick Cheney


quote:

What if it is mostly our fault? I mean, after all, it's mostly due to our actions. Shouldn't we own up to them, or should we just continue to deride the "Blame us" crowd and go on thinking that if we just kill enough people, blow up enough shit, and terrorize the rest with threats of violence, everything will work out


Yeah because we are blowing up and killing people in large numbers in Iran?
quote:

terrorize the rest with threats of violence,

So stating the potential use of force is now akin to terroism, thanks.

So I can only assume you hold Obama to the very same standard as Cheney?






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WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
15038 posts

re: The World According to Dick Cheney


quote:

quote:

Can you think of anything that the U.S. has done over the last 60 years that would make Iranians like us?

Really? That's how it works?

Uh, YES:



Do you not remember why our embassy in Tehran was attacked in 1979?






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WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
15038 posts

re: The World According to Dick Cheney


quote:

Yeah because we are blowing up and killing people in large numbers in Iran?

I hadn't heard that, link?
quote:

So stating the potential use of force is now akin to terroism, thanks.

Threatening harm on another is against the law in our country, it's called 'assault'.

Flying drones over non-combattant airspace I imagine could be terrifying to a population.

I've talked to a guy who grew up in Malaysia during the 60s that siad they were terrified by the squadrons of B-52s that would occasionally fly over their country.

We shouldn't throw this term, "terror" around so lightly. If we use it broadly enough to justify our actions, then eventually it can be used to describe our own actions.

quote:

So I can only assume you hold Obama to the very same standard as Cheney?

Why wouldn't I?






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Jbird
Iowa Fan
In Odramaville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
16563 posts

re: The World According to Dick Cheney


quote:

Yeah because we are blowing up and killing people in large numbers in Iran?



I hadn't heard that, link?


Srsly?
quote:

Threatening harm on another is against the law in our country, it's called 'assault'.

So a country can be charged with assualt?







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