Stoner Metal/Sludge/Post-metal/Blues Rock - Page 10 - TigerDroppings.com

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Tackle74
Missouri Fan
Rogers, AR
Member since Mar 2012
1604 posts

re: Stoner Metal/Sludge/Post-metal/Blues Rock


Surprised no one has mentioned Earthless, great music mostly jam little vocals if any, long songs

LINK

Also huge fan of Mastodon and The Sword though both those bands cross into different Genres depending on the Album but hell I have liked everything both have done






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Champagne
New Orleans Saints Fan
French and Spanish Empire Border
Member since Oct 2007
10856 posts

re: Stoner Metal/Sludge/Post-metal/Blues Rock


AFAIK, Black Sabbath's Master of Reality album is considered the first Stoner/Sludge Metal/Rock album.

For example, Dragonaut by Sleep sounds a LOT like the songs on Master of Reality.






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Sayre
LSU Fan
Clinton
Member since Nov 2011
901 posts
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re: Stoner Metal/Sludge/Post-metal/Blues Rock


quote:

AFAIK, Black Sabbath's Master of Reality album is considered the first Stoner/Sludge Metal/Rock album.


I believe that'd more likely be the first Black Sabbath album.



This post was edited on 4/27 at 6:33 pm


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Champagne
New Orleans Saints Fan
French and Spanish Empire Border
Member since Oct 2007
10856 posts

re: Stoner Metal/Sludge/Post-metal/Blues Rock


No. It definitely is not the debut Black Sabbath album. I've been playing some songs from that album, and, it uses standard tuning for guitar with no special fuzz, distortion or other guitar pedal effects.

The debut album can be described as "heavy blues".

The third album is Master of Reality. I've played some songs from that album on guitar. The bass and guitar are both tuned to C sharp, which is three steps below standard tuning -- that had never been done before on a rock record.

Tony Iommi says that he used that tuning to get a heavier sound, and it worked. Tony uses his classic guitar pedal effects on Master of Reality.

I've been listening to and playing songs from both of these albums for some time now. The opinion of rock music at large installs Master of Reality as a seminal catalyst for the birth of Doom Metal/Stoner/Sludge Metal.

A good listen of the song "Into the Void" bears this out.

LINK

The heavy, sludgy and long intro are pure Sludge Metal. The doom and gloom lyrics are pure Doom Metal.

Lots of rock critics consider the debut album as the first "Heavy Metal" record, but, HM is not the same as Sludge Metal/Doom Metal.



This post was edited on 4/28 at 9:02 pm


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Brosef Stalin
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2011
7780 posts

re: Stoner Metal/Sludge/Post-metal/Blues Rock


great week for new music

Fu Manchu - Gigantoid
quote:

This kind of music demands to be played on vinyl and blasted while you take massive bong hits in your hand-me-down La-Z-Boy



Floor - Oblation
If you don't know Floor, they're the old band from the singer of Torche. They recently got back together. If you like Torche, you'll like this. If you haven't heard Torche, you really should.



New music from Down, Crowbar, and EHG next month.






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Sayre
LSU Fan
Clinton
Member since Nov 2011
901 posts
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re: Stoner Metal/Sludge/Post-metal/Blues Rock


I'm as or more familiar with Black Sabbath's catalog as you are and don't care what the 'critics' say. The first song on the first album is stoner. The sub-genre distinctions between stoner and doom are much too fluid to say that it nor N.I.B. nor Warning can't be labeled as stoner.





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Champagne
New Orleans Saints Fan
French and Spanish Empire Border
Member since Oct 2007
10856 posts

re: Stoner Metal/Sludge/Post-metal/Blues Rock


quote:

I'm as or more familiar with Black Sabbath's catalog as you are and don't care what the 'critics' say. The first song on the first album is stoner. The sub-genre distinctions between stoner and doom are much too fluid to say that it nor N.I.B. nor Warning can't be labeled as stoner.



Do you play Black Sabbath songs on guitar? Are you familiar with the tunings?

The debut and Paranoid use standard tuning. Master of Reality, the third album, uses C# tuning, which was radical at that time. Modern Stoner/ Sludge/ Doom Metal songs tend to use tunings that are three or two steps down from standard.

This is the evidentiary basis for my conclusion that Master of Reality represents a seminal influence for Stoner/Sludge/Doom Metal -- the fact that the radical C# tuning was first used there, and has been replicated consistently as the genre evolved to today.

What's the evidentiary basis for YOUR opinion that it doesn't?

PS Your own opinion can't serve as the evidentiary basis for your own opinion.







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Sayre
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Clinton
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re: Stoner Metal/Sludge/Post-metal/Blues Rock


Yes, I am familiar with the different tunings on a guitar. All the evidence I need is the songs themselves, which are much more than the sum of their tunings. Just because the songs from the first two albums didn't use C# doesn't mean that the basic song structure and subject matter aren't directly related to the songs on the third album. If the C# tuning is your only defining trait on what is stoner and what is not, you're splitting hairs much too finely.





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Sayre
LSU Fan
Clinton
Member since Nov 2011
901 posts
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re: Stoner Metal/Sludge/Post-metal/Blues Rock


quote:

great week for new music

Fu Manchu - Gigantoid

quote:
This kind of music demands to be played on vinyl and blasted while you take massive bong hits in your hand-me-down La-Z-Boy


Been eagerly waiting for this!

Orange Goblin will have a new album out later this year too.






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Champagne
New Orleans Saints Fan
French and Spanish Empire Border
Member since Oct 2007
10856 posts

re: Stoner Metal/Sludge/Post-metal/Blues Rock


quote:

which are much more than the sum of their tunings.


Your opinion is a minority opinion, but, you are entitled to it notwithstanding.

I have re-visited the debut album, and, the first song can be said to be a strong influence on this interesting genre. But, still, that doesn't change the notion that the third album is the first of the stoner / sludge / doom metal genre -- and this is the majority opinion, your personal view notwithstanding.

I don't understand your need for italics. When a guitarist plays Tony Iommi's songs using the same notes in the same positions as Tony, the player gets a closer feel for the song than would a mere listener.

That's not to denigrate listeners. It's just that the player's insight is probably more astute than the insight of one who is a listener -- and only a listener.

I think that we would both urge all fans of the genre to get the first five Black Sabbath albums -- the debut, Paranoid, Master of Reality, Vol 4 and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath.

I believe that these are essential, especially the first four.

You mention splitting hairs. In these kinds of subject matters, splitting hairs is sometimes necessary to gain some precision. The tuning issue is decisive, because it does allow us to gain a more precise definition of our terms.

We share much common ground in that we both recognize this band's work as the genesis of a several new genre's of rock music. The debut album was recorded in 1969, so, they accomplished many "firsts".

I've just listened to the first song on Gigantoid. Good stuff. Sounds like they down tune the guitar to D for the song, which is typical of the genre.




This post was edited on 4/29 at 8:55 am


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JohnZeroQ
USA Fan
Pelicans of Lafourche
Member since Jan 2012
4066 posts

re: Stoner Metal/Sludge/Post-metal/Blues Rock


quote:

We share much common ground in that we both recognize this band's work as the genesis of a several new genre's of rock music. The debut album was recorded in 1969, so, they accomplished many "firsts".
sums up the entire dialouge



I came across a band called Sir Lord Baltimore - wiki says they are of the first in the "stoner" genre.

Anyone have any insight? Ive heard a few of their tracks but really have a hard time agree with wiki.

Black Sabath to me is the godfather of the genre( multiple ones in fact) IMO

Let the debate rage on






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JohnZeroQ
USA Fan
Pelicans of Lafourche
Member since Jan 2012
4066 posts

re: Stoner Metal/Sludge/Post-metal/Blues Rock


Fu Manchu is a classic from my young days. Simply love them.



That Floor track is legit - Champion Brosef once more
So damn stonneeddd it is. Really just sludged-stoned




This post was edited on 4/29 at 1:02 pm


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Champagne
New Orleans Saints Fan
French and Spanish Empire Border
Member since Oct 2007
10856 posts

re: Stoner Metal/Sludge/Post-metal/Blues Rock


quote:

Let the debate rage on



I agree, there's much overlap, much common ground and plenty of opportunity to split hairs.

IMHO, the use of the C# tuning first used by Iommi on Master of Reality is quite important, because, in order to use that tuning scheme, you may need to conduct some other guitar adjustments, besides just turning the machine heads. You may need to adjust the bridge and intonate after downtuning. That's why this was a radical innovation -- it was complex and more involved than the classic blues innovation of tuning down only one step to E flat, like Jimi Hendrix.

It's also interesting that the classic Fu Manchu guitar sound is made with one single coil pickup. Tony Iommi's classic guitar sound on the first three albums is also made with, not a humbucker, but with single coil pickups.

You'd think that the guitarist would want the hottest, heaviest double coil PUPs for the genre, but, this is not necessarily so. The single coil sound works.



This post was edited on 4/29 at 11:13 am


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Sayre
LSU Fan
Clinton
Member since Nov 2011
901 posts
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re: Stoner Metal/Sludge/Post-metal/Blues Rock


quote:

When a guitarist plays Tony Iommi's songs using the same notes in the same positions as Tony, the player gets a closer feel for the song than would a mere listener.

That's not to denigrate listeners. It's just that the player's insight is probably more astute than the insight of one who is a listener -- and only a listener.



My guitar playing is only rudimentary. I taught myself just enough so that I could understand the exact kinds of things you're talking about with the tunings, pickups, and hardware. I did not and do not have the time to put in the effort to be a virtuoso, but I did want to have a more in depth understanding. However, when I was younger I played a variety of other musical instruments, some of them quite well I was told. That gave me an understanding for the structure and scales of most types of the common music styles. I imagine I have a much more in depth idea of what's going on than you might assume.

quote:

I think that we would both urge all fans of the genre to get the first five Black Sabbath albums -- the debut, Paranoid, Master of Reality, Vol 4 and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath.


I would never leave out Sabotage. My current favorite Sabbath tune in on it (The Writ).

Hell, there's three or four awesome songs on Never Say Die. Technical Ecstasy is the only real stinker.

I take it you've read Rat Salad by Paul Wilkinson?






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Champagne
New Orleans Saints Fan
French and Spanish Empire Border
Member since Oct 2007
10856 posts

re: Stoner Metal/Sludge/Post-metal/Blues Rock


quote:

My guitar playing is only rudimentary.




I appreciate your honesty and sincerity.

I'm sure that I understand your opinion.

You'll forgive me if I prefer to hear some opinions from others.



This post was edited on 4/29 at 9:33 pm


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Sayre
LSU Fan
Clinton
Member since Nov 2011
901 posts
 Online 

re: Stoner Metal/Sludge/Post-metal/Blues Rock





Be honest now. The only opinion that matters to you is your own. You're much too in love with yourself to care what anyone else thinks.

quote:

AFAIK, Black Sabbath's Master of Reality album is considered the first Stoner/Sludge Metal/Rock album


The first Black Sabbath album is the first stoner album.

quote:

You'll forgive me if I prefer to hear some opinions from others.


You're not forgiven.



This post was edited on 4/30 at 7:24 am


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JohnZeroQ
USA Fan
Pelicans of Lafourche
Member since Jan 2012
4066 posts

re: Stoner Metal/Sludge/Post-metal/Blues Rock


LOL haahaha... he does come off kinda silver spoonish. Albeit, he seems to know what hes talking about. I just have never played the guitar so cannot comment.





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Robin Masters
Alabama Fan
Birmingham
Member since Jul 2010
2576 posts

re: Stoner Metal/Sludge/Post-metal/Blues Rock


I've listened to many hours of stoner rock in my time...these guys are solid.
Spiritu






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JohnZeroQ
USA Fan
Pelicans of Lafourche
Member since Jan 2012
4066 posts

re: Stoner Metal/Sludge/Post-metal/Blues Rock


Some really raw stuff there. What more can you tell me about the band?





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Sayre
LSU Fan
Clinton
Member since Nov 2011
901 posts
 Online 

re: Stoner Metal/Sludge/Post-metal/Blues Rock


quote:

LOL haahaha... he does come off kinda silver spoonish. Albeit, he seems to know what hes talking about. I just have never played the guitar so cannot comment.



Ya gotta appreciate how he just can't keep himself from being condescending, no matter how hard he tries. It drips off every line he types. He's got that shite down to an art.






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