Rossi circuit judge 45lc/410 rifle for $479.99 at Academy..Wa-Mart over $600.00

rossi is junk.
only purpose I see in a judge would be as a snake gun

in other words useless

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in other words useless

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This ^^^

But it's hard to overcome a multi-million dollar advertising campaign. People either understand, or they don't.

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BTW, there is also an 18" 12 ga. pump gun with single 0 bs in the corner if she runs out of no. 4's and can get to it..

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In that scenario, there's really no need for the Judge.

My "problem" w/ the Judge is lack of objective data showing it's an effective self defense weapon. Granted, the most effective handguns are not as effective as most rifles and shotguns (especially 12 gauge, but probably 20 gauge, as well). But where's the objective data for the 410? I've never been able to find, and no one else has been able to show me, objective data for the 410 as a shotgun, much less as a handgun. Consequently, the best one can hope for is that those holes in the bad guy are actually going to be effective. Even then, there may not be many holes as one would think in the bad guy shot w/ the Judge at close range; or, those holes may be fairly superficial and not penetrate adequately. Lots of info on the 'net re: penetration and close range shot pattern w/ the Judge, but I can't pull it up right now. It sounds attractive and the exploding water melons are impressive, but for now I'm not changing from a known comodity w/ a reliable history as a fight stopper to something else (what's basically now an unknown commodity) w/o having objective data.

And before anyone asks, no, I don't want to get shot in the face w/ the Judge. :-)

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statistics or no statistics, pull the trigger 5 times on something with a group of fairly large pellets coming out of it, i would think a human, even "hopped up" human is going to cease it's charge.

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You may well be right. OTOH, my mind (at least what I have left) has an analyic type process. I'm comforted by objective evaluation as opposed to what I think should be. Consequently, I prefer to go the route that's been shown to have the best chance for success. That's why I don't have a Judge at this time. But, that is subject to change if at some point in time the 410 handgun is found to be an effective fight stopper.

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When you factor, time, fear, surprise, adrenalin, you're asking a woman, or a man for that matter to be awful good or lucky to put a bullet in the boiler of an unlit target...

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Given the shot pattern of a 410 handgun, a shot from a conventional handgun that misses the mark will also be an effective miss when shot from the 410 handgun.

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Again, JMO, I hope none of us have to ever find out..

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So true! I agree w/ you entirely. :-)

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but, even though the pattern of a 410 inside of 25 feet or so is relatively small, it is wider than a single bullet, so less likely to be a complete "miss".. agree?

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I'll try to explain myself better. I'll also refer to page 4 of "The Box O' Truth" review of the Judge to provide visuals to help w/ my explanation.

Let's say one takes a shot at a bad guy w/ a 9mm. The point of aim is at mid chest. But the point of impact is 3" too far to the shooters' right, missing the target entirely. Hitting the same point of impact w/ a 410 handgun as w/ the aforementioned 9mm, only a few discs or buckshot may hit the vitals of the bad guy because the pattern of the 410 handgun is so spread out. Look at page 4 of "The Box O' Truth."
LINK
Many of the 410 handgun projectiles failed to hit the vitals and missed the target entirely. Conclusion #4 was,
"4. Even at 7 yards, the pattern of the Judge is too wide, and will cause some of the load to miss a bad guy. Not only are you responsible for every pellet you send down range, but if they miss him, they do not Stop him."

Some will hit, some will miss. But will there be enough hits in the vitals for the load to put an end to the fight? Who knows. In addition, we haven't even mentioned the fact that the 410 handgun loads tested did not penetrate sufficiently to meet the accepted minimum standard. Nor have we mentioned how well someone can get off 5 quick, yet well placed shots w/ a heavy recoiling gun like the Judge.

Personally, I'd rather put more emphasis on practice and training and take my chances w/ a conventional handgun load that has a proven track record as a dependable fight stopper.