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Doc Fenton
LSU Fan
Houston, TX
Member since Feb 2007
50346 posts

re: Egyptian Military Trying To Steal The Election From The Brotherhood


I never said they "stole" the election.

What I explained in your previous thread--and also in this thread--is that the elections are not "free and fair" by any means, and that this is just the way the military leadership wants it. I really don't see how anybody who's been following the ins and outs of this story over the past few months like you have would fail to see this.

It's not so much that the Muslim Brotherhood is popular among the electorate. They aren't. They didn't spark the revolution, and most Egyptians generally realize that the MB is trying to latch onto the movement in order to take credit for what they don't deserve.

Their success is getting votes is only because of the conditions imposed upon the political process by the military leadership.

A revolution supposedly changed the regime, but the same people are in charge. They are self-interested and are clearly not going to allow for an open constitution-formation process if they can help it. Why would they?






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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
15401 posts

re: Egyptian Military Trying To Steal The Election From The Brotherhood


Okay, I see where you're coming from. I realize that the military is trying to rig the process and had a bunch of candidates thrown out, so let me rephrase my original statement. The Brotherhood won the majority of the parliament seats in a "military-controlled" election. The Brotherhood played by the military's rules and they won anyway. Now the military is saying, "you beat us at our own chess game, so we're just going to knock all the chess pieces on the floor, turn the board over and start all over again". If the Brotherhood could win a military-controlled election, isn't likely that they would win a free and fair election also?





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tigeraddict
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2007
4590 posts

re: Egyptian Military Trying To Steal The Election From The Brotherhood


IS it a vote for MB or a vote Against the Military....





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Tiger Authority
LSU Fan
Member since Jul 2007
29475 posts

re: Egyptian Military Trying To Steal The Election From The Brotherhood


Both options are bad options. I don't want to have any discussion at any time with trackfan on Israel because it's a complete waste of everyone's time but the comments expressed with the Muslim Brotherhood's nominee towards Jews is quite alarming, expected, and would simply lead to further instability in a region that is already about as unstable as it can be. I have little hope that this area will ever change.





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ottothewise
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2008
32094 posts

re: Egyptian Military Trying To Steal The Election From The Brotherhood


quote:

I have little hope that this area will ever change.


there will come a day when people choose leadership which can transcend our differences and help to find common ground as human beings.

The military are not giving up their wealth and power without a fight. We shall see whether the people can stand up to them.
That's a different issue from whether the elected leadership will work to make real peace possible in the region.

the military were so in bed with the US billions we were bribing them with, so they would not fight Israel. I wonder if Russia will step up again and offer arms/loans. probably.

proxy wars disgust me.










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Tiger Authority
LSU Fan
Member since Jul 2007
29475 posts

re: Egyptian Military Trying To Steal The Election From The Brotherhood


quote:

there will come a day when people choose leadership which can transcend our differences and help to find common ground as human beings.


Based on comments, the Muslim Brotherhood isn't about anything but intolerance either. So I'm not sure we can know for sure which option is better. Both are bad and will either keep the country in a bad spot (military status quo) or maybe even a worse spot (Muslim Brotherhood) as far as stability in the region goes.






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Tchefuncte Tiger
LSU Fan
I have no idea!
Member since Oct 2004
22088 posts

re: Egyptian Military Trying To Steal The Election From The Brotherhood


That looks like the Grand Mosque in Bahrain. Used to drive by that big sucker everyday on my way to work.





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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
15401 posts

re: Egyptian Military Trying To Steal The Election From The Brotherhood


quote:

I don't want to have any discussion at any time with trackfan on Israel because it's a complete waste of everyone's time

It's only a waste of time if you believe that the U.S. should blindly support Israel even when their interest conflict with our interests.






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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
15401 posts

re: Egyptian Military Trying To Steal The Election From The Brotherhood


quote:

Based on comments, the Muslim Brotherhood isn't about anything but intolerance either. So I'm not sure we can know for sure which option is better. Both are bad and will either keep the country in a bad spot (military status quo) or maybe even a worse spot (Muslim Brotherhood) as far as stability in the region goes.

History has shown the electoral considerations has a moderating influence on extremist political factions since, like all politicians, once they get in office, they want to get reelected.






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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
48230 posts

re: Egyptian Military Trying To Steal The Election From The Brotherhood


quote:

History has shown the electoral considerations has a moderating influence on extremist political factions since, like all politicians, once they get in office, they want to get reelected.

like in Iran?






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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
15401 posts

re: Egyptian Military Trying To Steal The Election From The Brotherhood


quote:

like in Iran?

Are you serious? The Supreme Leader (Ayatoollah Khamenei) isn't elected. I thought you would know better than that.






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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
48230 posts

re: Egyptian Military Trying To Steal The Election From The Brotherhood


quote:

The Supreme Leader (Ayatoollah Khamenei) isn't elected. I thought you would know better than that.
GTFO.
Ahmanutjob is """elected""".

I know, I know --
You claim Ahmanutjob is only the 19th most powerful person in the chain of command, or some such BS.
Regardless, the point is Middle East "elections" are for the most part historically far from determinative of the peoples' will.

I thought you would know better than to assert otherwise.






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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
15401 posts

re: Egyptian Military Trying To Steal The Election From The Brotherhood


quote:

GTFO. Ahmanutjob is """elected""". I know, I know -- You claim Ahmanutjob is only the 19th most powerful person in the chain of command, or some such BS. Regardless, the point is Middle East "elections" are for the most part historically far from determinative of the peoples' will. I thought you would know better than to assert otherwise.

Even if Ahmadinejad was elected in a "free and fair" election - which wasn't since everyone knows that they didn't even bother to count the votes in 2009 - he has no power in Iran. Khamenei has the power, he's the Commadner-in-Chief. By the way, do you consider an election free and fair when they don't even bother to count the votes?



This post was edited on 6/15 at 8:43 pm


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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
15401 posts

re: Egyptian Military Trying To Steal The Election From The Brotherhood


quote:

Doc, I just call him Slow Runner as a result of him knowing so little about the history of the ME.

There he is, right on cue - incapable of debate but the master of juvenile, ad hominen attacks.






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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
48230 posts

re: Egyptian Military Trying To Steal The Election From The Brotherhood


quote:

quote:

the point is Middle East "elections" are for the most part historically far from determinative of the peoples' will. I thought you would know better than to assert otherwise.
Even if Ahmadinejad was elected in a "free and fair" election - which wasn't since everyone knows that they didn't even bother to count the votes in 2009






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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
15401 posts

re: Egyptian Military Trying To Steal The Election From The Brotherhood


The Brotherhood claims victory. It would appear that the military is all out of tricks. Now what?

LINK



This post was edited on 6/18 at 6:01 am


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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
15401 posts

re: Egyptian Military Trying To Steal The Election From The Brotherhood


The military has now delayed the announcement of the election results indefinitely.
quote:

Egyptian election officials said Wednesday that they were postponing the announcement of a winner in last week’s presidential runoff, saying they needed more time to evaluate charges of electoral abuse that could affect who becomes the country’s next leader.

The commission had been expected to confirm a winner on Thursday and, based on a public vote count confirmed in official news media, to have named Mohamed Morsi, of the Muslim Brotherhood.

The surprise delay intensified a power struggle between the Muslim Brotherhood and Egypt’s military rulers. It came just days after the generals who took over upon the ouster of Hosni Mubarak reimposed martial law, shut down the Brotherhood-led Parliament, issued an interim charter slashing the new president’s power and took significant control over the writing of a new constitution.

The new uncertainty about the presidential election results has only heightened the atmosphere of crisis here and raised deep doubts about Egypt’s promised transition to democracy. The generals had promised to hand over power after the election.

Although the vote count appeared to make Mr. Morsi the winner by a margin of nearly one million votes, his opponent, Ahmed Shafik, has also declared himself the winner. A former air force general and Mr. Mubarak’s last prime minister, Mr. Shafik campaigned as a strongman who could keep the Islamists of the Brotherhood in check. His campaign has filed complaints with the election commission charging the Brotherhood with systematic violations of the electoral laws.


LINK






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Doc Fenton
LSU Fan
Houston, TX
Member since Feb 2007
50346 posts

re: Egyptian Military Trying To Steal The Election From The Brotherhood


From Matthew Kaminski writing in today's WSJ ( LINK)...

quote:

The military-led regime has time on its side. Not so the leaders of the renewed popular push in Tahrir. Egyptians are tired of 16 months of political chaos, and the opposition hasn't proven it's able to stay united for long.

The Brotherhood's dictatorial and power-hungry tendencies have alienated friends and made them enemies. Several times in the past year, the group tried to strike its own deals with the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces, or SCAF, and ended up with nothing. "They got greedy and were eaten alive by the SCAF," says Mohammed Kassas, a former young activist in the Brotherhood who broke with them to create a moderate Islamist movement, Egyptian Current.

But the prospect of the old regime's survival by constitutional fiat or a Shafik victory has focused minds. Moaz Abdel Karim, who also helped form the Current, was surprised to find himself Wednesday back inside a Brotherhood office working with them. "We have no other choice," he said sheepishly, before meeting Mr. Baltagi. "If Shafik comes to power, we will be sent back to jail."

Ahmed Maher, a founder of the April 6 youth movement, held his nose and voted for Mr. Morsi. Starting with Tuesday night's rally, he joined the Islamists back in Tahrir Square. "We still believe there is maybe a hope in the Muslim Brotherhood," he says, without conviction.

The Brotherhood, a hierarchical secret society founded in 1928, now promises to share power through a coalition government. The failure of Egypt's Islamists to work with secular groups other than in the streets has made it easier for the Egyptian "deep state" to divide and hold on. Most of the blame for this stillborn transition belongs with the military.


quote:

The announcement of an official winner of the presidential election, originally due on Thursday, was indefinitely delayed on Wednesday night here, supposedly to investigate fraud claims—all the better for the regime to see if the protests hold up. Many Egyptians want their normal lives back. Cairo taxi drivers are again cursing the demonstrators for snarling traffic: These are the Shafik voters.

If the SCAF declares Mr. Shafik the victor, the scenes in Tahrir will probably get ugly. But will the street settle for a Morsi presidency without the other demands to restore parliament and rescind the military's constitutional decree? The military could anoint him without conceding any real power. He would have no authority, but all the responsibility—a recipe for failure. "The SCAF plays it very well," says Salafist politician Nader Bakar, "like a chess game."






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