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Started By
Message
PJ Fleck has a better resume than Herman
Posted on 10/24/16 at 8:49 am
Posted on 10/24/16 at 8:49 am
If you are really comparing the two resume's I believe Fleck's is the better of the Two.
1) Both as a h.c. (Fleck built a program over a four year period and bringing that program to a level it's never seen). It show's his ability to recruit and develop players. Herman inherited Houston program that was well established before him. (Briles, Sumlin, etc built that program., he's done well with it but starting to see some shaky moments how will he and his players respond? we know how fleck responded after a one win season. He improved the next year, and the next, and the next. herman is more of enigma/unknown)
2) A lot of people say Herman gets the edge due to coordinator experience. However. some of the top coaches in the game today have never been a coordinator. (Harbaugh, Meyer, and Swinny). So, is that really an edge? Additionally, Feck has Two years more as a h.c. than Herman. Is being coordinator more of an edge than h.c. experience?
3) Fleck has played and coached at the n.f.l. level. Herman has not. So when people talk about pressure, scheme, game prep, etc. You really think Fleck wasn't exposed to any of this at the n.f.l. level? You don't think he had to break down tape, study his opponent, learn about the press, etc as a player and coach in the n.f.l.?
4) If it's the conference he plays in that bothers you. Then why is it ok for Malzahn and freeze to come from the sun belt. Urban Meyer and McElwain come from the Mountain west, and Sumlin from the American. I could go further and give examples of Stoops, Jimbo, Swinny, Shaw etc never having h.c. experience.
Is Herman a good coach? very well could be. However, He is still a unknown commodity. I think Fleck is more of a known product than Herman. Who will be better over time? only time will tell. At this point, to suggest Herman is that much better of a coach is speculation without merit.
So, If you are going to tell people to move on, PJ Fleck is not getting the Job. End discussion's about PJ Fleck. Then you must question why are the same discussion ok about Herman? because that's who you want? Why do these rules only apply to PJ FLECK?
I don't care if either get the Job or do not. I'm just pointing out that the absolute blind love affair with Herman is no different than PJ Fleck.
1) Both as a h.c. (Fleck built a program over a four year period and bringing that program to a level it's never seen). It show's his ability to recruit and develop players. Herman inherited Houston program that was well established before him. (Briles, Sumlin, etc built that program., he's done well with it but starting to see some shaky moments how will he and his players respond? we know how fleck responded after a one win season. He improved the next year, and the next, and the next. herman is more of enigma/unknown)
2) A lot of people say Herman gets the edge due to coordinator experience. However. some of the top coaches in the game today have never been a coordinator. (Harbaugh, Meyer, and Swinny). So, is that really an edge? Additionally, Feck has Two years more as a h.c. than Herman. Is being coordinator more of an edge than h.c. experience?
3) Fleck has played and coached at the n.f.l. level. Herman has not. So when people talk about pressure, scheme, game prep, etc. You really think Fleck wasn't exposed to any of this at the n.f.l. level? You don't think he had to break down tape, study his opponent, learn about the press, etc as a player and coach in the n.f.l.?
4) If it's the conference he plays in that bothers you. Then why is it ok for Malzahn and freeze to come from the sun belt. Urban Meyer and McElwain come from the Mountain west, and Sumlin from the American. I could go further and give examples of Stoops, Jimbo, Swinny, Shaw etc never having h.c. experience.
Is Herman a good coach? very well could be. However, He is still a unknown commodity. I think Fleck is more of a known product than Herman. Who will be better over time? only time will tell. At this point, to suggest Herman is that much better of a coach is speculation without merit.
So, If you are going to tell people to move on, PJ Fleck is not getting the Job. End discussion's about PJ Fleck. Then you must question why are the same discussion ok about Herman? because that's who you want? Why do these rules only apply to PJ FLECK?
I don't care if either get the Job or do not. I'm just pointing out that the absolute blind love affair with Herman is no different than PJ Fleck.
12
Posted on 10/24/16 at 8:59 am to dos crystal
Fleck doesn't have any big, signature wins though
That is what brought on the Herman hype, wins against FSU and OU
also Herman is a Meyer protege and seems to be very well respected among elite coaches (Saban consulted him)
That is what brought on the Herman hype, wins against FSU and OU
also Herman is a Meyer protege and seems to be very well respected among elite coaches (Saban consulted him)
Posted on 10/24/16 at 9:10 am to dos crystal
You really have to take into account that no one knows what is happening behind closed doors when you start analyzing Herman's loses this season. For all we know, the Longhorns post could be true. Maybe Herman has a gentleman's agreement in place with LSU or even Texas. Hell, he could have already taken the job. His players certainly have seen everything surrounding his name and whether he's willing to admit it to them or not, they all know he's gone after this season.
This takes pretty big tole on a players mentality. Maybe they don't put their body on the line like they normally would. Maybe they don't give maximum effort every play. His team is quitting on him, specifically against lesser competition.
Fleck, on the other hand, hasn't had the media love fest that Herman has, his players don't see his name associated with all the big name jobs that are set to open up so it's easier for him to deflect and have the team play their asses off for him.
I personally think either one is a good hire, certainly better than keeping O, I'm just pointing out that is a bit unfair to hold those loses against Herman given the situation.
This takes pretty big tole on a players mentality. Maybe they don't put their body on the line like they normally would. Maybe they don't give maximum effort every play. His team is quitting on him, specifically against lesser competition.
Fleck, on the other hand, hasn't had the media love fest that Herman has, his players don't see his name associated with all the big name jobs that are set to open up so it's easier for him to deflect and have the team play their asses off for him.
I personally think either one is a good hire, certainly better than keeping O, I'm just pointing out that is a bit unfair to hold those loses against Herman given the situation.
This post was edited on 10/24/16 at 9:12 am
Posted on 10/24/16 at 9:12 am to Salmon
Herman is looking awfully like kliff kingsbury. He is not meyer.
Fleck does have the better resume. Hopefully Texas can take Herman so we don't make a bad hire
Fleck does have the better resume. Hopefully Texas can take Herman so we don't make a bad hire
Posted on 10/24/16 at 9:15 am to ibleedprplngld
I want to believe this, but I can't.
If a coach can't get his #11 ranked team focused, I really question his worth.
And can we all agree now that the Oklahoma win was not that impressive, now that we have seen who OK really is?
If a coach can't get his #11 ranked team focused, I really question his worth.
And can we all agree now that the Oklahoma win was not that impressive, now that we have seen who OK really is?
This post was edited on 10/24/16 at 9:17 am
Posted on 10/24/16 at 9:25 am to LSUfan20005
Think of it this way, if your boss put in his 2 week notice, and then asked you to take on extra work to be completed the week after he's gone, are you really going to push yourself to get it done in that time frame?
Probably not, it works the same way for players. It's the extra effort that makes a difference for teams that aren't as talented as an Alabama, or LSU, or Ohio State. When your incentive to put that extra effort is gone, what then?
Probably not, it works the same way for players. It's the extra effort that makes a difference for teams that aren't as talented as an Alabama, or LSU, or Ohio State. When your incentive to put that extra effort is gone, what then?
Posted on 10/24/16 at 9:34 am to LSUfan20005
Oklahoma win matters. However, a spanking by a horrible SMU team doesn't? Not sure I follow the logic. Maybe teams are figuring out Herman?
I have yet to see anyone provide valid points to why Herman is so much better than fleck. All I see is he beat fsu and Oklahoma, he's not ready, he coached under Meyer. Saban talked to him.
I provided many issues where fleck's resume tops hermans. No one states "why" Herman tops fleck. It's because I say so thing.
By the way, fleck coached under tressel. So is that so much worse than Herman under Meyer?
I have yet to see anyone provide valid points to why Herman is so much better than fleck. All I see is he beat fsu and Oklahoma, he's not ready, he coached under Meyer. Saban talked to him.
I provided many issues where fleck's resume tops hermans. No one states "why" Herman tops fleck. It's because I say so thing.
By the way, fleck coached under tressel. So is that so much worse than Herman under Meyer?
Posted on 10/24/16 at 9:35 am to dos crystal
quote:
I provided many issues where fleck's resume tops hermans. No one states "why" Herman tops fleck. It's because I say so thing.
quote:
All I see is he beat fsu and Oklahoma, he's not ready, he coached under Meyer. Saban talked to him.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 9:45 am to dos crystal
quote:
I don't care if either get the Job or do not. I'm just pointing out that the absolute blind love affair with Herman is no different than PJ Fleck.
That is pretty much my thoughts too. be open minded, interview all the candidates and hire the best one.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 9:47 am to dos crystal
Posted on 10/24/16 at 9:50 am to dos crystal
quote:I've heard that if someone has never been a coordinator then they should never be considered for a head coaching job.
2) A lot of people say Herman gets the edge due to coordinator experience. However. some of the top coaches in the game today have never been a coordinator. (Harbaugh, Meyer, and Swinny). So, is that really an edge? Additionally, Feck has Two years more as a h.c. than Herman. Is being coordinator more of an edge than h.c. experience?
Posted on 10/24/16 at 9:57 am to dos crystal
quote:
the absolute blind love affair with Herman
Here in lies the problem. In the social media age, we get so inundated with hype that back lash is inevitable.
Fleck has been a HC longer and 1 year in the NFL, but overall, imo Herman's resume is stronger. He's spent time at 2 major programs (Texas, tOSU) plus as an OC at another P5 team (Iowa State) where as Fleck has only been in the MAC and Rutgers and was never a coordinator.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 9:58 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
and 1 year in the NFL
plus 2 as a player
When Mike Nolan cut him from the 49ers he offered to keep him on as a coach but Tressel contacted him too and he ended up at tOSU
This post was edited on 10/24/16 at 10:00 am
Posted on 10/24/16 at 10:25 am to dos crystal
I think the biggest difference comes down to this
1. HC records. Herman is still 19-3 Fleck is 25-21. Houston wasn't Briles or Sumlins team when Herman took over. Likewise Western Michigan was some dumpster fire under Bill Culbit.
2. Signature wins. You are gonna lose some games either way at a smaller school. But what si PJ Fleck's signature win? #24 Toledo last year? His Schedule this year couldn't be easier.
3) Would you rather hire from the Urban Meyer Coaching tree or the Greg Schiano Coaching tree?
4) I think you over value Fleck's 2 years "playing" for the 49ers, and 1 year coaching for Greg Schiano in Tampa Bay. Look at Dave Aranda. Dude didn't even play college ball and he is as good a DC as anyone.
5) As far as Fleck being a "known commodity" he is 25-21 as a head coach. Career high of 8 wins in a season. I think he will have a fine year this year, but the schedule is so damn easy and there is no distractions out there.
1. HC records. Herman is still 19-3 Fleck is 25-21. Houston wasn't Briles or Sumlins team when Herman took over. Likewise Western Michigan was some dumpster fire under Bill Culbit.
2. Signature wins. You are gonna lose some games either way at a smaller school. But what si PJ Fleck's signature win? #24 Toledo last year? His Schedule this year couldn't be easier.
3) Would you rather hire from the Urban Meyer Coaching tree or the Greg Schiano Coaching tree?
4) I think you over value Fleck's 2 years "playing" for the 49ers, and 1 year coaching for Greg Schiano in Tampa Bay. Look at Dave Aranda. Dude didn't even play college ball and he is as good a DC as anyone.
5) As far as Fleck being a "known commodity" he is 25-21 as a head coach. Career high of 8 wins in a season. I think he will have a fine year this year, but the schedule is so damn easy and there is no distractions out there.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 10:38 am to drexyl
quote:
I've heard that if someone has never been a coordinator then they should never be considered for a head coaching job
well in that case Urban, Harbaugh, and Dabo shouldn't be head coaches....... and yes they are all coaching teams in the top 10.
This post was edited on 10/24/16 at 10:40 am
Posted on 10/24/16 at 10:53 am to dos crystal
And you still aren't even going to call him n
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:01 am to SammyTiger
quote:
But what si PJ Fleck's signature win? #24 Toledo last year?
you do realize that was the first win over a ranked team in the history of WMU, right?
quote:
Would you rather hire from the Urban Meyer Coaching tree or the Greg Schiano Coaching tree?
completely irrelevant. What "tree" is Nick Saban from? Don James? What about Meyer? Bob Davie? What about Jim Harbaugh? His dad Jack?
quote:
I think you over value Fleck's 2 years "playing" for the 49ers, and 1 year coaching for Greg Schiano in Tampa Bay. Look at Dave Aranda. Dude didn't even play college ball and he is as good a DC as anyone.
I don't think it's any more or less relevant than Herman's time as a coordinator.
quote:
I think he will have a fine year this year, but the schedule is so damn easy
Dude he's at Western Michigan not the Seattle Seahawks.
This post was edited on 10/24/16 at 11:06 am
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:09 am to dos crystal
quote:I never even heard this dude's name until we fired Miles and the rantards started throwing out obscure candidate names
I think Fleck is more of a known product than Herman
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:11 am to El Magnifico
quote:
I never even heard this dude's name until we fired Miles and the rantards started throwing out obscure candidate names
Yeah well nobody in BR had ever even heard of Nick Saban until the day before we hired him so....
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:17 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Yeah well nobody in BR had ever even heard of Nick Saban until the day before we hired him so....
doubt that considering LSU played Saban a few years prior and that Saban upset the #1 team the year before
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