Revenue per patient in a doctors office?
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Revenue per patient in a doctors office?
Posted by Robin Masters on 2/2 at 9:55 am
Anyone have an idea how much, per patient, a docs office makes? Family practice for example. EBITDA \ # of patients.

Thanks



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Posted by ATL TGR on 2/2 at 10:06 am to Robin Masters
I would think the numbers are highly dependant on the operating environment. (Social economic status of patients, intention of lead physician etc)


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Posted by peopleschamp on 2/2 at 10:25 am to Robin Masters
The only thing I have ever heard from a doctor is family doctors make 150-175K. I don't know about per patient? They are at the low end of the doctor scale. That still isn't bad money.


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Posted by Zach on 2/2 at 10:30 am to Robin Masters
Just finished an article in WSJ (Friday's). Obamacare will result in more doctors switching from independent status to that of an employee. Thus, doctors may form a union.


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Posted by saderade on 2/2 at 11:46 am to Robin Masters
Depends on the insurance. A psychologist told me he only gets $4 per medicaid patient. Obviously that is the lowest paying.


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Posted by matthew25 on 2/2 at 12:12 pm to saderade
I have hear Medicaid pays $29 per patient, and may soon only pay $27.

My doctor bills me $65 for an OV. Don't know what the insurance company pays.



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Posted by Ric Flair on 2/2 at 12:39 pm to Robin Masters
Depends on the level of visit (which is determined either by the extent of the history and physical exam/medical complexity, or you can bill if you spend alot of time with the patient in counseling/coordination of care).

It also varies depending of payer source and whether it was an inital visit, a consult, or a followup visit.



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Posted by Forgiving Morgan on 2/2 at 9:08 pm to Robin Masters
Per patient is not a factor. Per visit is what matters. In primary care, the docs that are doing really well collect on average $200+ per visit. The docs that are scraping by but making a living are collecting around $120- $130 per visit.
The docs collecting less that $100 per visit are making less money than your plumber and in more debt that you can imagine.



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Posted by guttata on 2/2 at 9:15 pm to Forgiving Morgan
It totally depends on which insurance the patient has. Noway does a psych make $4 on a Medicaid patient. That's simply not true.


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Posted by Forgiving Morgan on 2/2 at 9:22 pm to guttata
quote:

It totally depends on which insurance the patient has. Noway does a psych make $4 on a Medicaid patient. That's simply not true.


This is absolutely possible. He most certainly collects more that $4 on the patient, but it is completely within the realm of possibility that his profit on this visit is $4.



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Posted by Ric Flair on 2/2 at 9:23 pm to guttata
I can see how he'd only net $4 for a Medicaid visit, counting overhead (nurses pay, front desk pay, office lease, etc). The revenue from a level 3 follow up visit is probably 30 bucks, maybe 40 tops or so for a Medicaid patient.

It's definitely not worth your time.



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Posted by Forgiving Morgan on 2/2 at 9:32 pm to Ric Flair
For a single provider, overhead on average is going to be about $200/ hour give or take


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Posted by Ric Flair on 2/2 at 9:34 pm to Robin Masters
Just read the prior post about per visit vs. per patient. I assumed you were asking the question as counting a "patient" as a visit.

If you were looking to buy a practice based on total number of patients, I'd say that metric would be way down on the list on what you would measure profitability on. The two metrics I'd be most interested in is total number of patient visits/year, and the distribution of the payer source (ie % private insurance vs Medicare vs Medicaid).



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Posted by Forgiving Morgan on 2/2 at 9:38 pm to Ric Flair
quote:

If you were looking to buy a practice based on total number of patients, I'd say that metric would be way down on the list on what you would measure profitability on. The two metrics I'd be most interested in is total number of patient visits/year, and the distribution of the payer source (ie % private insurance vs Medicare vs Medicaid).


agreed



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Posted by Robin Masters on 2/2 at 10:58 pm to Forgiving Morgan
quote:

Revenue per patient in a doctors office? Per patient is not a factor. Per visit is what matters. In primary care, the docs that are doing really well collect on average $200+ per visit. The docs that are scraping by but making a living are collecting around $120- $130 per visit. The docs collecting less that $100 per visit are making less money than your plumber and in more debt that you can imagine.


That's what I meant actually. Per patient visit. Thanks. Great info!



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Posted by BACONisMEATcandy on 2/3 at 2:01 pm to Robin Masters
Everyone realizes that doctors have no say in what they are paid right?

It's all done by the government and insurance companies



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Posted by SM6 on 2/3 at 3:15 pm to Zach
I don't think union, rather cooperatives. Places like urgent care will sprout


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Posted by Ric Flair on 2/3 at 3:17 pm to BACONisMEATcandy
To an extent, you are correct. But the doctor can do a quick review of systems and whatever part of the physical exam they need to increase billing level.

Or a FP doc can do some minor ortho procedures (steroid/synvisc injections) or pap smears and things like that which increase revenue, instead of being just med/peds-lite.


This post was edited on 2/3 at 3:22 pm

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Posted by Forgiving Morgan on 2/3 at 3:52 pm to BACONisMEATcandy
quote:

Everyone realizes that doctors have no say in what they are paid right?

It's all done by the government and insurance companies


In MOST (not all) cases, the reimbursement for individual codes are dictated by the providers contract with the government programs or insurance companies. However, the doctor certainly has a say in how they choose to practice medicine, which has a tremendous impact on their reimbursement and income.



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Posted by siliconvalleytiger on 2/3 at 3:56 pm to peopleschamp
quote:

The only thing I have ever heard from a doctor is family doctors make 150-175K. I don't know about per patient? They are at the low end of the doctor scale. That still isn't bad money.


Is that before of after the multitude of insurance they need to buy to cover themselves?



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