Help settle a work debate, greatest heavyweight boxers
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re: Help settle a work debate, greatest heavyweight boxers
Posted by VerlanderBEAST on 12/10 at 4:29 pm to braindeadboxer
quote:

This is admirable in any era against any caliber opponent. Even the greats typically get caught by that random arse punch they never see coming.


Vitali has taken some absolutely vicious punches too and never been down or particularly wobbled. People have no clue how dominant he is, never been down on the cards at any point in any fight



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Posted by Sid in Lakeshore on 12/10 at 4:35 pm to UFownstSECsince1950
quote:

no doubt in my mind he'd beat Ali, Marciano, Dempsey, Johnson, etc 6+ times out of 10





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Posted by TigerintheNO on 12/10 at 4:40 pm to Sid in Lakeshore
Looking at some of the names that have been listed Foreman, Tyson, Holmes, & Lewis.

Holyfield fought them all, a total of six times, & only lost once.



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Posted by Sid in Lakeshore on 12/10 at 4:43 pm to alajones
quote:

Tyson was done by the mid-90s when Evander was being his daddy. I'm just going with "when they were in their primes". And I watched many a Tyson fight and plenty of Lewis fights. I never saw anything resembling the way Tyson was mauling folks in the late 80's.


This. People were litterally afraid to fight Mike Tyson. They were taking dives, not for money but for self preservation.

The man was an animal..........before he became, well,,,, an animal.



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Posted by dukke v on 12/10 at 4:45 pm to TigerintheNO
quote:

Looking at some of the names that have been listed Foreman, Tyson, Holmes, & Lewis.

Holyfield fought them all, a total of six times, & only lost once.


And this is fine. But he didn't fight TYSON in his prime. And Frazier OR ALI would PUMMEL him, AND a young George Foreman would CRUSH him.



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Posted by Sid in Lakeshore on 12/10 at 4:48 pm to dukke v
I respect the hell our of Evander, but he's not top 3.....top 20 sure, but not top 3.


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Posted by UFownstSECsince1950 on 12/10 at 4:49 pm to Sid in Lakeshore
Can you imagine if Ali would've fought Wepner in his prime?? I highly doubt Clay would've lasted 6 rounds......


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Posted by bobbyray21 on 12/10 at 4:50 pm to Sterling Archer
1. pre-ban Ali (he was absolutely untouchable)
2. Jack Johnson (watch the documentary, dude was 50 years ahead of his time)
3. Tyson (once he fired Kevin Rooney after the Spinks fight, he unraveled as a fighter)
4. Lennox Lewis (Would have given all of the above a great deal of trouble.)



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Posted by bobbyray21 on 12/10 at 4:51 pm to UFownstSECsince1950
quote:

Can you imagine if Ali would've fought Wepner in his prime?? I highly doubt Clay would've lasted 6 rounds...


Are you making a fricking joke?

If the Ali of 1966 fought Chuck fricking Wepner, he wouldn't have been hit. Watch Ali/Chuvalo from 1966 and make note that Chuvalo was way way way better than Wepner.



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Posted by bobbyray21 on 12/10 at 4:53 pm to TigerintheNO
quote:

Joe Louis is #1 in my book,
followed in no order by Ali, Marciano, Holyfield, and Foreman.


Ali in his prime would have made Joe Louis look silly.



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Posted by dukke v on 12/10 at 4:53 pm to bobbyray21
quote:

pre-ban Ali (he was absolutely untouchable)


AGREED.


quote:

3. Tyson (once he fired Kevin Rooney after the Spinks fight, he unraveled as a fighter)


I had a feeling Douglas was gonna win that fight going in WITHOUT ROONEY.


quote:

4. Lennox Lewis (Would have given all of the above a great deal of trouble.)



ALI would have wore him out by the 10th round. I think FRAZIER is NOT getting enough love in this thread. The best ever??? NO. But a hell of a fighter. I would have LOVED to see TYson Frazier in their respective primes go at it.



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Posted by SouljaBreauxTellEm on 12/10 at 4:54 pm to dukke v
1 Cassius Clay is the greatest heavyweight "boxer" of All-time.

2 Then maybe the Brown Bomber

3 Mike Tyson

4/5/6 Holyfield/Lewis and Marciano



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Posted by RonBurgundy on 12/10 at 4:57 pm to alajones
quote:

Tyson was done by the mid-90s when Evander was being his daddy


Lewis is older than Tyson, he was ducked by Tyson during his prime. Hardest hitting jab ever recorded. All hail The Lion



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Posted by bobbyray21 on 12/10 at 4:59 pm to TheOcean
quote:

Tyson is one of the most interesting sports figures of the last century IMO. Dude is very intelligent; I would highly recommend watching his documentary.

He couldn't cope with D'Amato's death and went off the deep end. D'Amato was the only person that he trusted/Tyson would listen to.



Tyson is fascinating. Cus D'amato knew he needed a team in place to keep him from unraveling, and knew that his time was limited, and so he put a team in place for Tyson. Rooney as trainer. Cayton/Jacobs as managers/agents. And a couple other guys as friends/confidants.

Tyson needed that infrastructure, and it all unraveled when Robin Givens and Don King got in his ear. Actually it all unraveled after Jacobs died. Jacobs was the manager that Tyson trusted as a friend. Cayton didn't have that kind of relationship with Tyson and had no way of keeping King out of the mix.

After Spinks, he fired Cayton and Rooney, and that was that. The style that Tyson learned through Cus via Rooney was highly technical and required constant reinforcement (read: proper training). He never got that after he fired Rooney.



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Posted by bobbyray21 on 12/10 at 5:02 pm to RonBurgundy
quote:

Lewis is older than Tyson, he was ducked by Tyson during his prime. Hardest hitting jab ever recorded. All hail The Lion


This is completely incorrect. Lennox Lewis was still an amateur when Tyson was in his prime. When Tyson was 21, he would have destroyed Lennox Lewis.



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Posted by RonBurgundy on 12/10 at 5:02 pm to Widowmaker
quote:

Let's get something straight: Tyson,


would have been kept at bay by Lewis reach even in Tyson's prime. He was always an inferior boxer to Lewis

quote:

You put mid/late 80s Tyson vs. Lennox Lewis and Tyson would've KO'd him, no doubt in my mind.



Not even close. Tyson is so overrated, Don King lined up plenty of stiffs to enhance Tyson's image/marketability.



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Posted by bobbyray21 on 12/10 at 5:03 pm to dukke v
quote:

I had a feeling Douglas was gonna win that fight going in WITHOUT ROONEY.


If this is true, then you're an observant dude. There were two fights between when he fired Rooney and when he fought Douglas. He won them both, but you could tell he wasn't fighting the same technical style.



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Posted by dukke v on 12/10 at 5:04 pm to RonBurgundy
quote:

would have been kept at bay by Lewis reach even in Tyson's prime. He was always an inferior boxer to Lewis


A 21 year old TYSON would not have cared about Lewis' REACH and JAB he would have destroyed him within 4 rounds.



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Posted by bobbyray21 on 12/10 at 5:05 pm to RonBurgundy
quote:

would have been kept at bay by Lewis reach even in Tyson's prime. He was always an inferior boxer to Lewis


To be clear, are we talking Tyson's prime vs. Lewis's prime? Or Tyson vs. Lewis when Tyson was in his prime?

The former, I agree that Tyson would have had trouble with Lewis. But I'm not certain Lewis would have beaten him. Could have gone either way.

The latter, no way. Lewis wasn't ready for Tyson when he was that age.


This post was edited on 12/10 at 5:08 pm

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Posted by bobbyray21 on 12/10 at 5:07 pm to dukke v
quote:

ALI would have wore him out by the 10th round. I think FRAZIER is NOT getting enough love in this thread. The best ever??? NO. But a hell of a fighter. I would have LOVED to see TYson Frazier in their respective primes go at it


Honestly, I respect the hell out of Frazier. But if you watch him in his prime, he's a slightly less athletic version of Tyson.



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