So LaTech wants to be flagship univ
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re: So LaTech wants to be flagship univ
Posted by Joshjrn on 5/2 at 1:11 pm to Doctor Radical
It would take political will for one. It would take twice as much political will for a second after achieving a first. Going for two at the same time would take even more political will as there is no established path for success.

It seems as though raising one university from good to great would be a far easier sell than two, and once achieved, would make raising the second much easier to swallow.



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Posted by RandyVandy on 5/2 at 1:59 pm to kingfish
What percent of LSU students are OOS? A lot of prominent public schools in smaller or poorer states (Iowa, Oregon, etc) have huge populations of students from larger, nearby states that couldn't hack it at their own states flagship(s) but don't wanna spend for years at a D-II commuter school. These are usually competent, if not great, students (after all, Texas, Cal, Illinois, etc are no cake walk to get into), but more importantly, they are often pretty well off: Not fake Ole Miss rich, but actually rich. They pay private school prices as students and, because rich people tend to stay rich and these students are actively choosing to attend a given school rather than settling for whatever option in their home state, donate back to the school later. Lastly, it helps spread alumni around, giving a school a national or regional rep rather than just a local one.


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Posted by jerep on 5/2 at 2:45 pm to kingfish
The problem is not that there are too many state funded universities in LA (although that is indirectly one problem). The problem is that what we have are too many community college/career training schools. Every local politician gets state money funneled to whatever is local to his area, and people in that area like it that way.

I don't know how many people I've heard talk about how great the local commnuity college is when in reality, it provides a pretty poor excuse for education. At best it is simply job training, and more accurately it is just something that collects tuition in return for selling students the fraud that they are getting an education. The only goal seems to make the students feel good, and provide relatively low-wage employers with state subsidized training. They want teachers who make the students think they care about them rather than faculty who know their subject and can teach it.

Most of the 4-year colleges and universities in the area have such ridiculously high teaching loads for the faculty, that they are more like community colleges or high-schools than universities -- meaning that the few faculty that have any academic interests don't have time to pursue them, and the rest stay because they view thier job as little different than that of a high-school teacher -- and not even a good one. In this situation, for a given pay rate, the quality of faculty a university can attract is much lower than what it could get for the same pay rate at a university where academics is more than just a buzzword.

Sadly, Tech is going the same way. The university "reorganized" a few years ago, eleminating the college of Liberal Arts and Sciences, and generally moving in the direction of career training as opposed to providing an education. (And no, "Liberal Arts and Sciences" has nothing to do with being a political "liberal".)

In saying this, I am not attacking Tech and supporting LSU. Other than according to their PR people, neither has a particularly outstanding reputation for quality of education or research.

University faculty are supposed to be experts in their field of study, which allows them to know what is important to teach students so that the students will be able to understand and think for themselves, the most critical result of education. Good reasearchers may not always be the best teachers, but faculty who are not engaged in their area of expertise are generally not the best teachers, and are not in a position to know what is most important in thier field.

The political problem is that increasingly people don't understand or value the difference between education and training, and we are in a vicious cycle. When people don't understand this distinction, and the value of education, not only in being a good citizen in a republic, but also in the practical value of being a valuable employee and being able to earn a better living, then it is hard for them to realize that what they are getting from the community colleges and dumbed down universities. is not so great. This goes for people in general, and employers as well as employees.

Basically, if you don't know something, then you can't know what you don't know.


The colleges and universities which actually provide a relatively good education are for the most part in states where there is more than one really good university. This is true even if you consider only private universities and colleges. It is the general understanding of the importance of education (as opposed to training) that leads to this.

Even so, througout the country there is a move away from education and toward training and the population is being dumbed down in the process.

I am not saying that everyone should go to a college or university, or that training is of no value. The problem is that employers and people in general, have been sold the idea that people who haven't been to college are worthless. Not only is this false, but it has allowed the primary schools to be seriously dummbed down, and has caused universities to be dummbed down in an attempt to satisfy the demand that everyone should be able to get a college degree.

Does this mean that we need more state funding of education? NO. What is needed is dramatically fewer university administrators and other overpaid parasites. We need fewer massively overpaid atheletic directors, coaches, and staff. We need people to get over the idea that they can get an education in their spare time, with little or no sacrafice of time or effort. We don't need extension campuses in every single little town in the state, nor do universities need to have extensions in big cities. And we don't need to worry about people who choose where to go to college because of whether the college is in a small town or big city, or the city is "fun", or they have a good football team. If people can't get serious about getting an education, then we certainly shouldn't be forced to subsidize it for them.

We could easily have three or four very good universities in Lousiana with faculty members getting a decent salary with teaching loads appropriate for university faculty -- good faculty; if we got rid of the administrative and athletic bloat, and stopped paying insane salaries in a few areas such as schools of business, which have dubious academic merit anyway. Doing this, and hiring faculty based on merit rather than the academic old-boys network which dominates faculty hiring throughout the country, would largely solve the problem of properly fianincing the universities.

Good faculty could can be had for a reasonable pay rate if they are allowed to work in a real academic environment rather than a glorified high-school. By reasonable pay rate I mean less than those at the top of the pay scale get now. Good faculty is not synonomous with getting paid $150k or $250k. If a decent, professional, academic work environment is available, you can get Ph.D.'d, faculty who can do as good a job of teaching and research as anywhere for $50k to $60k. Will some east-coast and west-coast schools pay alot more? Yes, but what difference does that make. Faculty positions are not going unfilled because of a lack of qualified applicants.

And all of this, without even considering what the proper role of the state, if any, should be in education.

(On a not completely separate issue: Starting a sentence with "so" except as a conclusion following a supporting sentence, does not make sense. The "so" must be in response to a prior thought. This has become widespread in the last couple of years.)



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Posted by los angeles tiger on 5/2 at 3:40 pm to Doctor Radical
quote:

If LaTech became like CalTech and LSU was Berkeley or USL became Michigan State to LSU's Michigan, I can't see how that's bad.


If Louisiana Tech became like Cal Tech it would become an expensive private institution. Before spouting off your nonsense, please have some basic knowledge like I just provided.










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Posted by Adam Banks on 5/2 at 4:57 pm to dewster
quote:

Blanco was not a friend to LSU in any way.


Neither is Jindal.



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Posted by Doctor Radical on 5/2 at 4:59 pm to los angeles tiger
quote:

If Louisiana Tech became like Cal Tech it would become an expensive private institution. Before spouting off your nonsense, please have some basic knowledge like I just provided.


Fine,

Michigan State.

frick dude. Relax. I just picked a school with the name Tech in it.




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Posted by Tiger Authority on 5/2 at 5:11 pm to Adam Banks
quote:

Neither is Jindal.


Expound upon this regurgitated statement that nobody has been able to explain.


This post was edited on 5/2 at 5:12 pm

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Posted by Adam Banks on 5/2 at 5:33 pm to Tiger Authority
quote:

Expound upon this regurgitated statement that nobody has been able to explain.



Well heres an easy one that happened recently
LINK

Every single time there is a budget cut it is balanced on the back of education and state healthcare which coincidently hit LSU double. He does nothing other than say my hands are tied.



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Posted by cahoots on 5/2 at 6:00 pm to Adam Banks
quote:

Every single time there is a budget cut it is balanced on the back of education and state healthcare which coincidently hit LSU double. He does nothing other than say my hands are tied.



I was under the impression that LA has a balanced budget and cuts can only come from ed and health. What am I missing?



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Posted by Adam Banks on 5/2 at 6:09 pm to cahoots
quote:


I was under the impression that LA has a balanced budget and cuts can only come from ed and health. What am I missing?



Exactly. Jindal is supposed to be this overwhelmingly popular savior of Louisiana. Louisiana has one of the most powerful gubernatorial offices. He should be using that to get it changed. Yet its all "my hands are tied"



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Posted by theronswanson on 5/2 at 6:26 pm to jerep
quote:

The problem is not that there are too many state funded universities in LA (although that is indirectly one problem). The problem is that what we have are too many community college/career training schools. Every local politician gets state money funneled to whatever is local to his area, and people in that area like it that way.

I don't know how many people I've heard talk about how great the local commnuity college is when in reality, it provides a pretty poor excuse for education. At best it is simply job training, and more accurately it is just something that collects tuition in return for selling students the fraud that they are getting an education. The only goal seems to make the students feel good, and provide relatively low-wage employers with state subsidized training. They want teachers who make the students think they care about them rather than faculty who know their subject and can teach it.

Most of the 4-year colleges and universities in the area have such ridiculously high teaching loads for the faculty, that they are more like community colleges or high-schools than universities -- meaning that the few faculty that have any academic interests don't have time to pursue them, and the rest stay because they view thier job as little different than that of a high-school teacher -- and not even a good one. In this situation, for a given pay rate, the quality of faculty a university can attract is much lower than what it could get for the same pay rate at a university where academics is more than just a buzzword.

Sadly, Tech is going the same way. The university "reorganized" a few years ago, eleminating the college of Liberal Arts and Sciences, and generally moving in the direction of career training as opposed to providing an education. (And no, "Liberal Arts and Sciences" has nothing to do with being a political "liberal".)

In saying this, I am not attacking Tech and supporting LSU. Other than according to their PR people, neither has a particularly outstanding reputation for quality of education or research.

University faculty are supposed to be experts in their field of study, which allows them to know what is important to teach students so that the students will be able to understand and think for themselves, the most critical result of education. Good reasearchers may not always be the best teachers, but faculty who are not engaged in their area of expertise are generally not the best teachers, and are not in a position to know what is most important in thier field.

The political problem is that increasingly people don't understand or value the difference between education and training, and we are in a vicious cycle. When people don't understand this distinction, and the value of education, not only in being a good citizen in a republic, but also in the practical value of being a valuable employee and being able to earn a better living, then it is hard for them to realize that what they are getting from the community colleges and dumbed down universities. is not so great. This goes for people in general, and employers as well as employees.

Basically, if you don't know something, then you can't know what you don't know.


The colleges and universities which actually provide a relatively good education are for the most part in states where there is more than one really good university. This is true even if you consider only private universities and colleges. It is the general understanding of the importance of education (as opposed to training) that leads to this.

Even so, througout the country there is a move away from education and toward training and the population is being dumbed down in the process.

I am not saying that everyone should go to a college or university, or that training is of no value. The problem is that employers and people in general, have been sold the idea that people who haven't been to college are worthless. Not only is this false, but it has allowed the primary schools to be seriously dummbed down, and has caused universities to be dummbed down in an attempt to satisfy the demand that everyone should be able to get a college degree.

Does this mean that we need more state funding of education? NO. What is needed is dramatically fewer university administrators and other overpaid parasites. We need fewer massively overpaid atheletic directors, coaches, and staff. We need people to get over the idea that they can get an education in their spare time, with little or no sacrafice of time or effort. We don't need extension campuses in every single little town in the state, nor do universities need to have extensions in big cities. And we don't need to worry about people who choose where to go to college because of whether the college is in a small town or big city, or the city is "fun", or they have a good football team. If people can't get serious about getting an education, then we certainly shouldn't be forced to subsidize it for them.

We could easily have three or four very good universities in Lousiana with faculty members getting a decent salary with teaching loads appropriate for university faculty -- good faculty; if we got rid of the administrative and athletic bloat, and stopped paying insane salaries in a few areas such as schools of business, which have dubious academic merit anyway. Doing this, and hiring faculty based on merit rather than the academic old-boys network which dominates faculty hiring throughout the country, would largely solve the problem of properly fianincing the universities.

Good faculty could can be had for a reasonable pay rate if they are allowed to work in a real academic environment rather than a glorified high-school. By reasonable pay rate I mean less than those at the top of the pay scale get now. Good faculty is not synonomous with getting paid $150k or $250k. If a decent, professional, academic work environment is available, you can get Ph.D.'d, faculty who can do as good a job of teaching and research as anywhere for $50k to $60k. Will some east-coast and west-coast schools pay alot more? Yes, but what difference does that make. Faculty positions are not going unfilled because of a lack of qualified applicants.

And all of this, without even considering what the proper role of the state, if any, should be in education.

(On a not completely separate issue: Starting a sentence with "so" except as a conclusion following a supporting sentence, does not make sense. The "so" must be in response to a prior thought. This has become widespread in the last couple of years.)



TL;DR



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Posted by Lsuhoohoo on 5/2 at 8:29 pm to theronswanson
wow cool. An opinion piece from an LSU grad thats made up of nothing but biased dribble. God forbid any university outside of LSU has a desire to expand its footprint as well as improve its academics.

And spare me the bull shite this guy spouts of about the BoR has it out to undercut LSU. Bull shite. For years and years, its been LSU first then everyone else battling for the scraps. Its still very much that same way. That article the OP posted comes off as nothing but a whiny LSU alum wanting the educational higher ups to keep their foot on the necks of the other Louisiana schools and make sure LSU isn't threatened. Give me a fricking break.

ETA: Do your research. La Tech isn't out to "steal" LSU-S from the LSU system. The merger was a recommendation came from an independent study that concluded the Shreveport-Bossier population was undeserved at the educational level. They concluded that a merger would be beneficial for both LSUS and the community. The school itself has been largely ignored since its inception in 1967 and has shown very little growth between now and then.


This post was edited on 5/2 at 8:39 pm

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Posted by los angeles tiger on 5/3 at 12:49 am to Doctor Radical
quote:

frick dude. Relax. I just picked a school with the name Tech in it


frick, dude, you should pick wisely, especially when you are degrading others and think of them as being ill-informed, or poorly educated, deserve to have your comments made.
Cal Tech is an actual school and if you are going to use the name in your argument, then expect such fallacies you have made to have light shed on them.



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Posted by CITWTT on 5/3 at 12:53 am to Lsuhoohoo
Got that off your shoulder now. How many U's are there in La with 30,000 k odd number of students?


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Posted by los angeles tiger on 5/3 at 1:02 am to Lsuhoohoo
quote:

wow cool. An opinion piece from an LSU grad thats made up of nothing but biased dribble. God forbid any university outside of LSU has a desire to expand its footprint as well as improve its academics.


Louisiana Tech is also in a university system, called the University of Louisiana System which comprises Tech, ULL, ULM, Northwestern, Southeastern, UNO, McNeese, Grambling. Louisiana Tech, therefore, is making noise when non should be made. UNO was a part of the LSU system and is now under the ULL system. LSU should not lose LSUS as well to the ULL system and only have LSU-E and LSU-A as the only other schools outside of LSU in the LSU system.



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Posted by Tigah in the ATL on 5/3 at 2:20 am to kingfish
Who could care who runs LSU-S? Good grief, people.


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Posted by LSUBrad5277 on 5/3 at 3:13 am to kingfish
quote:

La tech making a move to cut into LSU 's postion as the states flagship university



Louisiana Tech is designated as a Tier 1 national university by the 2012 U.S. News & World Report college rankings and is the only Tier 1 national university in the nine-member University of Louisiana System.

Louisiana Tech conducts research with ongoing projects funded by agencies such as NASA, the National Institutes of Health, the National Science Foundation, and the Department of Defense. The university is known for its engineering programs


Louisiana Tech has earned recognition from the Louisiana Board of Regents for its graduation rate and retention rate. According to a report of the Louisiana Board of Regents published in September 2010, Louisiana Tech has the second-highest graduation rate among the fourteen public universities in the state of Louisiana. The 53.16% 6-year graduation rate is second only to LSU.[9] Louisiana Tech has a 74.4% retention rate among incoming freshmen who stays with the same school after the first year, the top rate among Louisiana's public universities. [10]


In the 2012 U.S. News and World Report ranking of public universities, Louisiana Tech is listed 111th, and LA Tech is ranked in the "Top Tier" of national universities at 194th.[30] Forbes 2011 edition of America's Top Colleges ranks Louisiana Tech as the 139th best college in the South and as the 171st best research university in the nation.[31] According to The Washington Monthly's 2011 national universities rankings, which consider research, community service, and social mobility, Louisiana Tech ranks 207th nationally.[32]

In 2012, Kiplinger's Personal Finance ranked Louisiana Tech as the 96th best-value public university in the nation on the basis of in-state and out-of-state tuition.[33] According to U.S. News and World Report, Louisiana Tech's class of 2010 graduated with the 10th least amount of debt per student compared to all other national universities.[34] According to the 2011-2012 PayScale College Salary Report, Louisiana Tech alumni earn a median starting salary of $43,300 and a median mid-career salary of $85,100.[35]

According to the Association for University Technology Managers, Louisiana Tech is ranked as the nation's 2nd best academic institution for innovation productivity as measured by number of new inventions generated per research dollar expended.[36] RateMyProfessors.com ranked the Louisiana Tech professors 2nd on their "Top University Faculty List" in 2008.[37] In 2009, Small Times magazine ranked Louisiana Tech as the 7th best institution in nanotechnology commercialization.[38] G.I. Jobs named Louisiana Tech to its "2012 Military Friendly Schools List," which recognizes the top 15% of institutions doing the most to embrace America’s veterans as students.[39] Louisiana Tech was named to the "2010 President’s Higher Education Community Service Honor Roll," which recognizes institutions of higher education that support exemplary community service programs and raise the visibility of best practices in campus-community partnerships.[40]

Louisiana Tech is designated as a Tier 1 national university by the 2012 U.S. News & World Report college rankings and is the only Tier 1 national university in the nine-member University of Louisiana System.



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Posted by hawkster on 5/3 at 8:12 am to Doctor Radical
quote:

quote:
Maybe you confused about what flagship means.


Correct.

I was using flagship as a proxy for high institutional quality...not whether it's the "oldest" institution in the state.


In the context of higher education, flagship means spending as much money as you can possibly spend with absolutely no sincere regard for efficiency, quality or results.

When it comes to education, Louisiana doesn't need flagships, it needs warships.



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Posted by Tchefuncte Tiger on 5/3 at 8:39 am to los angeles tiger
quote:

UNO was a part of the LSU system and is now under the ULL system. LSU should not lose LSUS as well to the ULL system and only have LSU-E and LSU-A as the only other schools outside of LSU in the LSU system.


I thought part of this deal was LSU would trade to the UL System UNO for Tech. What happened?



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Posted by Doctor Radical on 5/3 at 9:08 am to los angeles tiger
quote:

especially when you are degrading others and think of them as being ill-informed


Did I do that (other than suggesting LSU is not an elite school)?


quote:

hen expect such fallacies you have made to have light shed on them.


Oh dear LAT. I humbly request apologies from your grace. I feel that my offense to you and your great intellect will never be rightfully punished. Your tact and wonderful addition to this debate are a credit to you and all that you bring to this discussion.

Thank you...thank you for just being you.



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