Chinese dissident leaves US embassy
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Chinese dissident leaves US embassy
Posted by redandright on 5/2 at 11:37 am
I cannot believe what this country has become. The nation that supported so many dissidents-not always I know, as they should have with Nelson Mandela, has allowed this to happen.

Such a sad day for supporters of Human Rights everywhere.

LINK


This post was edited on 5/2 at 11:38 am

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Posted by CptBengal on 5/2 at 11:40 am to redandright
quote:

However, some friends said Mr Chen was reluctant to stay in China and chose to do so after threats to his family. (ya Think)

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is in Beijing for high-level talks. Mr Chen's case has threatened to overshadow the talks, which are due to focus on issues like Syria and trade.

Mrs Clinton said the US would follow Mr Chen's fate in the long term.





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Posted by CarrolltonTiger on 5/2 at 11:54 am to redandright
You are such a knowledgable poster, how many dissidents have we allowed to move into US embassies for long term residence over the past 75 years? Other than Cardinal Mindszenty, I can't think of any such cases. Please fill me in.


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Posted by redandright on 5/2 at 12:06 pm to CarrolltonTiger
I'm assuming there's sarcasm in your last sentence, but I will answer in as straight a way as possible.


Well, I think we are in a much weaker position vis a vis China. We are in debt to China, and the Soviets needed us, for our grain, etc.

But once this man was in, I think it gave us a little more leverage, which I concede is very weak.

But this is a pattern I've seen in the last 3 years. Whether it is the people in the streets of Tehran, or the unwillingness to stand up to Russia about Syria, it shows a tendency of this admin to ignore human rights. And I do believe this is because Obama does see a moral equivalency between the US, and the oppressive regimes around the world.

Support for dissidents doesn't just mean guns either. Radio, internet help, samzidat-underground efforts are all vital. If we're doing it-we certainly don't know about it. Not details, mind you, just the general info. Ronald Reagan, GWB,heck even Clinton, would not have allowed this to happen.

And if this doesn't bring home the necessity of getting our financial house in order-China "owning us", nothing will.


This post was edited on 5/2 at 12:10 pm

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Posted by Big12fan on 5/2 at 12:28 pm to redandright
quote:

And I do believe this is because Obama does see a moral equivalency between the US, and the oppressive regimes around the world.


Yep, his support of Qadalfi proved that. Ditto the Mubarek regime in Egypt.




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Posted by CarrolltonTiger on 5/2 at 1:16 pm to redandright
quote:

I'm assuming there's sarcasm in your last sentence, but I will answer in as straight a way as possible.


You didn't answer it at all.

quote:

Ronald Reagan, GWB,heck even Clinton, would not have allowed this to happen.


How do you know this? What would they have done?



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Posted by redandright on 5/2 at 1:44 pm to CarrolltonTiger
quote:

How do you know this? What would they have done?



Well, my memory of those 3, is that they would never have let the Chinese force this man to leave the embassy. Reagan and Bush out of principle, Clinton because he didn't like anyone showing him up.

If you think this man will ever be seen again, or if he is, will be the same as before he went into a hospital, think again.



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Posted by CarrolltonTiger on 5/2 at 1:48 pm to redandright
quote:

Well, my memory of those 3, is that they would never have let the Chinese force this man to leave the embassy. Reagan and Bush out of principle, Clinton because he didn't like anyone showing him up.


Then explain this one: On October 24, 1985 Miroslav Medved, the Ukrainian sailor twice jumped the Soviet Union’s Marshall Koniev ship in the New Orleans harbor to seek political asylum in the United States.

He swam to shore, thinking he would find freedom there, but was taken into custody by the Border Patrol. After his first swim for freedom, Border Patrol put Medved on a skiff back to his ship. From the skiff, Medved jumped again, and again was captured and sent back to the ship.







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Posted by LSURussian on 5/2 at 1:58 pm to CarrolltonTiger
quote:

The nation that supported so many dissidents


=/=

quote:

how many dissidents have we allowed to move into US embassies for long term residence


Your question is not germane to the OP's hypothesis.



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Posted by redandright on 5/2 at 1:59 pm to Big12fan
Yes, Obama is selective in his outrage. Qadaffi was in his box after Bush showed he meant business. Ask yourself, would Qadaffi have been so bold, if GWB were still in office.

Mubarek, hardly an angel. But he had kept a lid on the Islamofacists, who are now poised to take power, and will perpetrate abuses Mubarak never dared to dream of.

Both of these men were bad actors. But we had a way to influence them which is now lost. Egypt also was a check on the radical elements in the ME, threatening all out war.

The US can't be in every prison in every nation. But when you have a world famous dissident, who escapes the Chinese thugs, and he is in your embassy where he can be protected, you donot turn him over to the authorities.

You refuse to, and you defend him, and you use the bully pulpit to put the heat on the authorities to protect his family.

The US State Dept has said the Chinese have agreed to keep us posted, and allow us access to this man. The Chinese have been silent, except to demand an apology for allowing the man into the US Embassy to begin with.

Obama feted the head of the PRC at a STATE DINNER while the latest winner of the Noble Peace Prize, a Chinese dissident, was under arrest.

What does that tell you?



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Posted by redandright on 5/2 at 2:05 pm to CarrolltonTiger
Yep, you're right, and I don't know why this man was forced back.

But part of the reason there is no more USSR, that there is no more Iron Curtana, is because of the US involvement in supporting dissidents throughout the Eastern Bloc.

It wasn't the main reason, but it was part. Some of this was realpolitic. But another reason was that many in the US on both sides of the aisle, have/had a real distaste for totalitarian regimes, and where possible, did what they could to help those who were vicitimized by them.



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Posted by CarrolltonTiger on 5/2 at 2:10 pm to redandright
quote:

Yep, you're right, and I don't know why this man was forced back.


He was actually in the US, in our custody twice and the Reagan administration returned him to the Soviets to be put in a psychiatric hospital, are you admiiting you were wrong about Reagan? Seems like a much easier case not to frick up.

quote:

is because of the US involvement in supporting dissidents throughout the Eastern Bloc.


You mean like when Bush gave his Chicken Kiev speech? FYI, the State Department resisted our efforts to dissolve the USSR.



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Posted by redandright on 5/2 at 3:13 pm to CarrolltonTiger
So in your view, one incident negates Reagan's record. I can say, that if a famous dissident had sought and received refuge in one of our embassies, there is no way Reagan would have caved to pressure.

If you are so blinded by your hatred of Reagan, then there is nothing I can ever say to change your mind.

Of course Reagan had to face reality, and was not always able to do all that he wanted. If you're going to cite that incident-and not ackowledge his great work, so be it.

I never mentioned GHWB as one who had anything to to do with the break up of the Eastern Bloc. He was an establishment man, who thought that was how it always going to be. I've always have been disappointed that he didn't acknowledge at the time it was happening, the role Reagan played in the dissolution of the USSR.

Obama sided with the Libyan "rebels", because it could not be avoided. It was on TV, the internet, everywhere. I'm sure he felt pressured by Frane and Italy as payback for Afghanistan and Iraq. Publicity and pressure also explains his actions in Egypt.



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Posted by LSUCanFAN on 5/2 at 3:31 pm to redandright
Pussification of America continues...hate to offend China over something as mundane as human rights


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Posted by CarrolltonTiger on 5/2 at 3:31 pm to redandright


quote:

I can say, that if a famous dissident had sought and received refuge in one of our embassies, there is no way Reagan would have caved to pressure.


So he tosses the little fish back when they are seeking freedom in America, and you are certain of how he would have treated a famous dissident overseas.


quote:

If you are so blinded by your hatred of Reagan, then there is nothing I can ever say to change your mind.


I have no hatred of Reagan, I just think you are an arse clown.



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Posted by secfan123 on 5/2 at 3:33 pm to LSUCanFAN
If you're party is so fricked up you gotta force people to stay, arent you doing something wrong?


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Posted by LSUCanFAN on 5/2 at 3:34 pm to secfan123
quote:

If you're party is so fricked up you gotta force people to stay, arent you doing something wrong?
are we talking the communists or the Dems?



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Posted by redandright on 5/2 at 3:48 pm to CarrolltonTiger
quote:

I have no hatred of Reagan, I just think you are an arse clown.


Well, I was hoping we could have a reasonable debate.

You know, everybody has to have their Carrollton Tiger moment. It's like the first time you get a ticket.

What a pathetic little person you are. Daily treated with contempt and derision, yet you keep coming back for more.

Sad, sad, little man. But don't worry, if it's attention you want, you've got it. There was quite the discussion going on about you on FB. And while I can't repeat what was written about you, because it would probably get me banned, and I don't have your talent for disguising vulgarities, rest assured, it was quite the topic, and you got all the respect on that board as you get on this one.

What's wrong? Some Jewish girl wouldn't go out with you?



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Posted by NHTIGER on 5/2 at 3:50 pm to CarrolltonTiger
"From the skiff, Medved jumped again, and again was captured and sent back to the ship.

After an outcry, the Reagan administration ordered the ship held. Medved was taken from the ship and reinterviewed by U.S. officials, who declared that he wanted to go home."

Hmmm, that last sentence sounds very familiar ...




"On January 30, 2001, Rev. Myroslav Medvid (since 1990, Rev. Myroslav Medvid was ordained a priest in the Ukrainian Catholic Church) met with several Members of Congress who played an instrumental role in defense of his desire to seek political asylum and stay in the United States.

At the time, Senator Helms did what he could to keep Miroslav Medvid, then 24, on U.S. soil, but under circumstances that have never been fully explained, he was returned to his ship.

Medved said he did not know about any support"





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Posted by los angeles tiger on 5/2 at 3:51 pm to redandright
He should have gone to Mexico, put on dark make-up and run across the border with a leaf blower.


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