Will Romney, if elected, really do anything to get our financial house in order?
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re: Will Romney, if elected, really do anything to get our financial house in order?
Posted by Draconian Sanctions on 5/2 at 12:56 pm to MoreOrLes
I don't know what I'm going to do. I lean left on a lot of issues but at the same time I recognize that what we're doing isn't sustainable. Maybe once we get closer Romney can convince me he's the right man for the job. He can be boring and administrative and convince me of that, but it's going to take more that what I've seen out of him so far.


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Posted by Zach on 5/2 at 1:01 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Allow me to explain the position of "presumption."
A person is put on trial for murder. He does not have to prove he is innocent. The prosecution has to prove that he is guilty. Tie goes to acquittal.

Why? Because of the philosophy of 'least risk'. It goes all the way back to Shakespeare. It is safer to let a guilty person go free than execute an innocent man.

Now, let's go to Romney v. Obama. The position of least risk mandates that logical people will vote for Romney. Why?

Because Romney may be much better than Obama. He may be slightly better than Obama. He may even be the same as Obama.

But it is impossible for Romney to be worse than Obama.

Les Miles broke this simple rule. He left Jordan Jefferson in against Alabama after 3 quarters of dismal failure instead of putting Lee in. It would be impossible for Lee to have performed worse than JJ in the 4th quarter since JJ = ZERO. Nothing is less than zero.

I hope this helps you understand why I would vote for a potted plant for President against Obama. Because there is no record of any potted plant being a Communist.



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Posted by Y.A. Tittle on 5/2 at 1:02 pm to Blue Velvet
quote:

quote:
to the right of Obama
Link?


LINK

If you don't think at least his stated platform positions are "to the right of Obama", you're pretty much someone for whom it is pointless in having any sort of political discussion with at all (which may be the case regardless).



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Posted by Draconian Sanctions on 5/2 at 1:02 pm to Zach
Yeah the whole Obama is a socialist/communist doesn't do it for me any more than the "Bush is Hitler" idiots did.


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Posted by JOJO Hammer on 5/2 at 1:13 pm to Draconian Sanctions
No, if Romney is elected the country will continue to go in the same direction as it has been for the past 20+ years. The rich will continue to get richer, the poor will remain poor, and the middle class will take all the shite and do nothing about it.


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Posted by ottothewise on 5/2 at 1:53 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:

expressing a desire to do so via his current platform?


wants a Ryan-style voucher to replace the medicare system.

will not confess how much a person will get.

its a secret and his people say its going to stay a secret.




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Posted by Blue Velvet on 5/2 at 1:53 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:

his stated platform positions are
Are you judging a politician by what he says and not what he does? His voting record and campaign website are not aligned.


This post was edited on 5/2 at 1:55 pm

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Posted by Y.A. Tittle on 5/2 at 2:12 pm to Blue Velvet
quote:

Are you judging a politician by what he says and not what he does? His voting record and campaign website are not aligned.


Voting record?



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Posted by Blue Velvet on 5/2 at 2:14 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:

Voting record?
Oops. Sorry. You know what I meant; his actions.



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Posted by Y.A. Tittle on 5/2 at 2:18 pm to Blue Velvet
quote:

You know what I meant;


No, actually I think it's probably a legitimate distinction over what you think you're trying to say.

Either way, I think you have to look at what a politician says in conjunction with what he does, and still stand by the point that if you think in doing so you can't say Romney is "to the right of" Obama, you don't know what the hell you're talking about and not worthy of serious attempts at discussion.



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Posted by coloradoBengal on 5/2 at 2:26 pm to MoreOrLes
quote:

But you not voting for Romney does not cancel out a vote for Obama so.....dont complain if Obama is elected again.


You don't forfeit your right to be disgusted by the stupidity of others, by choosing not to participate in a circle jerk.

In the big picture... the United States is completely frickED because of a lot more than what Obama (or Bush) did or didn't do(although I agree he is comparatively horrific.) And there is no way Romney, or even Ron Paul, could fix things in a real way, if they took over the Oval Office tomorrow.

Anyone that thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.



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Posted by Aubie Spr96 on 5/2 at 2:29 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:

Will Romney, if elected, really do anything to get our financial house in order?


No. Both parties are content to kick the can down the road.



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Posted by davesdawgs on 5/2 at 2:34 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:

quote:
I'm not convinced that he's any different than Bush or Obama. Explain to me why I'm wrong because I'm honestly curious.


You're not. That still means there's a chance he'll be different (better?) than Bush or Obama.

If that's my only real choice, I guess I'll take it.



This and at least we know Romney has the business experience/qualifications that Obama doesn't.



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Posted by Zach on 5/2 at 3:12 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:

Yeah the whole Obama is a socialist/communist doesn't do it for me any more than the "Bush is Hitler" idiots did.

OK, give me 3 philosophical differences between Obama and Marx.



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Posted by Blue Velvet on 5/2 at 3:56 pm to Y.A. Tittle
On what issues is he to the right? I'm betting there may be a few, but they are far less than the number of issues that they are in sync with each other. What about issues that Romney is left of Obama on?


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Posted by jerep on 5/2 at 3:58 pm to Zach
quote:

OK, give me 3 philosophical differences between Obama and Marx.


I doubt anyone can since I doubt they exist. Even if they did, most people havn't a clue about Marx's philosophy. In the Communist Manifesto Marx called for, among other things: a progressive income tax, state control of the economy (like TARP and the Federal Reserve), state funded and regulated compulsory education (Dept. of Education, No Child Left Behind), a state pension program for old age (Social Security, Medicare).

Similarly, I don't think anyone can provide philosophical differences between Obama and Romney. Maybe small degrees of difference, but not philosophical differences. Did Romney support TARP? Yes. Has Romney ever said or shown any indication that he would support even the idea, of eleminating the Dept. of Education (or any other federal department for that matter)? No. Has Romney ever said he was in favor of eleminating the income tax or even going to a low flat tax? No. Has Romney ever said he would be in favor of allowing people to opt out of Social Security? No. (Forcing people to pay into "private" accounts mandated and regulated by the government is an oxymoron. And I've not heard Romeny talk about even that false difference, although I wouldn't be surprised if he had quietly to certain select groups since this bit of smoke and mirrors has been around for some time and he changes what he says depending on whom he is speaking to.) Romney is not philosophically opposed to the state forcing people to take part in a state defined, regulated, and redistributively subsidized medical "insurance" program identical to Obamacare. Claiming it is ok for at the "state" level but not at the federal level is a convienent legal distinction, but absolutely not a philosophical one.


Romney is not yet the nominee. There are still caucuses and primaries left, and if all the people yelling they hate Obama would go and vote for the candidate who is clearly philosophically the opposite of Obama, then we could actually replace Obama with someone philosophically different. It is that simple.

But instead all anyone wants to do is talk about how much they hate Obama and how, despite his record, and even some of his recent rhetoric, maybe Romney won't be quite as bad. From this I conclude that most "conservatives" would rather hate Obama than actually do anything about his policies.



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Posted by Chimlim on 5/2 at 4:10 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:

Will Romney, if elected, really do anything to get our financial house in order?


Well would you rather go 10 trillion dollars more in debt under Obama? Or 4 trillion under Romney? I know both aren't the best choices, but under Obama we have had a record deficit - he's not going to stop spending either. Ya know what that means? Our taxes will go up.



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Posted by John McClane on 5/2 at 4:22 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:

Yeah the whole Obama is a socialist/communist doesn't do it for me any more than the "Bush is Hitler" idiots did.

He is a socialist. He doesn't even hide it. But if that term bothers you, just call him a "progressive".



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Posted by Champagne on 5/2 at 6:25 pm to coloradoBengal
quote:

Anyone that thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.


Some very well-informed observers and commentators have said that, even if we begin TODAY to address FedGov fiscal abuses, it will take a GENERATION to set things right.



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Posted by kingbob on 5/2 at 8:32 pm to Draconian Sanctions
I believe that he will spend less than Obama would, but would not really cut anything meaningful.


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