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re: What a brave man John Brown wasquote: I'm sure he did because the cause of ending slavery is exactly like the cause driving AQ. Yeah, exactly. Reply • Back to Top |
| One thing to consider is that majority of slave owners were in precarious financial situations (land rich, cash poor). Best example was Jefferson, who is very complex on this issue. I suspect the main reason he didn't free all of his slaves was that he needed the collateral to pay off his debt. Reply • Back to Top |
quote: What's your point? Reply • Back to Top |
| So the folks getting bombed to bits is no concern of yours? Nice to know. Reply • Back to Top |
quote:No, but I realize what I believe to be right and wrong isn't shared universally. I would say someone who is okay with what Brown did because they agree with his cause is practicing moral relativism. quote:I must not have made this point clear earlier, because you are the second person who thought this. I was just saying that it didn't have the same views like we have now. Not that x number of people thought it was fine. Reply • Back to Top |
quote: What're you getting at? Are you attempting to justify? Reply • Back to Top |
| The point was celebrate people that actually achieved long-term, visual results. Brown (and Turner) were footnotes in history. Celebrate someone like William Loyd Garrison, who once braved a northern mob b/c even northerners weren't too keen on freeing AAs all at once. For many years (prior to the civil war), Illinois made it illegal for any AA to live there. Reply • Back to Top |
quote: 1) The U.S. was not a global empire in 1860. The major colonial slave powers were the U.K., France, Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands. 2) France was the first European nation to ban slavery in 1794. Reply • Back to Top |
| You were the one stating that even most southerners thought slavery was wrong (Not sure where you get the numbers on this). Incidentally, the worst race riot in American history was the draft riots of NY during the civil war. Reply • Back to Top |
quote: I never got into whether he was justified. I just don't think he is the equivalent of AQ. He took the wrong route to achieve his goal, however, he presaged the coming conflict. And whether you admit it or not you are engaging in moral relativism. quote: This is muddled, what's your point of pointing out they had different views, but that slavery was viewed as morally wrong? Reply • Back to Top |
quote: That doesn't follow what I said. Reply • Back to Top |
quote: Proof that one man's miserable, bushwhacking, child murdering, women murdering terrorist can be another man's "freedom fighter." Reply • Back to Top |
quote:quote: ROLLTIDE is only doing what a lot of folks do when they find themselves on the losing side of a debate, which is resort to creating these absurd straw men that are easily knocked down. Reply • Back to Top |
quote: Actually, Blacks made great gains during Reconstruction. It wasn't until Rutherford Hayes ended Reconstruction when the Black Codes were passed that Blacks lost ground and then had to endure 90 years of Jim Crow. quote:  Reply • Back to Top |
quote: Becasue it wasn't difficuult and the industrial revolution made it unnecessary. How much easier is it to abolish it in the colonies than when it is part of your national economic system? Sort of as easy as it was for the north to be against it once they got rid of it by selling their slaves down the river. Reply • Back to Top |
quote: You still haven't answered my qiestion. Let me repeat it. Do you think that slaves like Turner should have just peacefully accepted their fate as slaves for the whole lives? Reply • Back to Top |
| How do you quantify "great gains", in what terms? Token political appointments? B/c AAs as a whole didn't see their lot improve until they moved up more industrialized north and California (later one for the latter). The north had 4 times the schools the south had, not to mention a better teaching pool. Reply • Back to Top |
quote: quote:Hmmmm. quote:Pointing out that people of different cultures and different era's have different values, norms, and ethics than Americans in 2012 is moral relativism? My point with the slavery comment is you can't place your 2012 views on people from that era and say they were wrong and John Brown's cause was right. This post was edited on 3/6 at 11:32 am Reply • Back to Top |
quote: When do you think Blacks had their first governor of a state or sent its first member to Congress? Reply • Back to Top |
How did that improve the lot of AAs in general?  Temporary gains once the northern troops pulled out. Reply • Back to Top • Refresh |
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