So, I'm attempting to build a PC and would appreciate some help...
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So, I'm attempting to build a PC and would appreciate some help...
Posted by LSUTigerfaninHtown on 7/18 at 9:18 pm
**Warning - lengthy post follows.**

Let me start this post off by saying that I've never attempted to build a PC before now, so I don't have a great understanding of this whole process. Take it easy on me.

I have had many PCs over the years, but they've all been pre-built. I thought about buying a pre-built PC again, but having to spend an extra $1000 or going with weaker components in order to purchase a Falcon Northwest (or an equivalent company) computer seemed like an unwise decision. That being said, I'm already terrified that I'm going the screw up the CPU pins (and to a slightly lesser extent, the CPU cooling).

I'm looking to create a PC that is, first and foremost, a high-end gaming machine. In addition to gaming and rudimentary PC uses (web browsing, word processing, music/video playback, etc.), I'll probably do a decent amount of video editing (not professionally) and make use of photoshop (the entire adobe creative suite, actually) from time to time. I also plan on having a dual monitor setup and I'll be wanting to do significant multitasking. Oh, and I'd like to make this PC last for a while.

(Edit: There's also a chance that I might want to do some game recording.)

This build ended up being around $2400 (with two monitors, Windows, and a keyboard included). Is $2400 a ridiculous amount to spend?

So, here's what I have so far (note: I haven't picked a power supply yet):

quote:


CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($279.99 @ Microcenter)
Motherboard: Asus Z87-DELUXE ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($263.99 @ NCIX US)
Memory: Kingston Predator Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($175.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Crucial M4 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($139.29 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($149.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 780 3GB Video Card ($659.99 @ NCIX US)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($93.49 @ Amazon)
Case Fan: Fractal Design FD-FAN-SSR2-140 66.0 CFM 140mm Fan ($16.79 @ NCIX US)
Optical Drive: Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Blu-Ray Reader, DVD/CD Writer ($56.22 @ Outlet PC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.73 @ Outlet PC)
Monitor: Asus VS229H-P 21.5" Monitor ($134.02 @ Amazon)
Monitor: Asus VS229H-P 21.5" Monitor ($134.02 @ Amazon)
Keyboard: Microsoft SIDEWINDER X4 Wired Gaming Keyboard ($55.52 @ Amazon)
Total: $2249.03

Link to pcpartpicker: LINK

So, I have more than a few questions (answer only as many as you can handle):

(Obviously, I did some research on my own, but I want to receive some actual feedback.)

1. Am I on the right track with this configuration, or am I way off? Overall, did I make wise choices in components? If not, where did I go wrong?

2. Did I choose a quality motherboard? Is there a better option? (Note: I went with the deluxe model because of it having 802.11ac Wi-Fi capability, although I may always use the ethernet port.)

3. Regarding the CPU, how did I do? Should I have gone with a different CPU? Will a quad-core processor be more than sufficient (for now and the future)?

4. After thinking about it for a while, I've decided that I won't be overclocking my CPU immediately (is that a mistake?). With that being the case, would it still be a good idea to purchase a replacement CPU cooler or will the included Intel cooler be more than sufficient? If the former is the case, can you recommend one?

5. Does this video card make sense, when you consider my needs? (Note: I don't want to "cut costs" only to upgrade my video card a year later.)

6. As far as the power supply is concerned, I really don't know what I'm doing (imagine that). Can you recommend a power supply for this configuration? (Note: I don't want to go with the bare minimum for power, I would like some "headroom." I've seen the "estimated wattage" on pcpartpicker and I did a quick calculation using the eXtreme power supply calculator, but I want reassurance from actual human beings.)

7. You may have noticed that I didn't include a sound card, is this a terrible, terrible mistake?

8. What else, if anything, should I do/purchase to keep the components cool? (I really don't have a firm grasp on what constitutes a proper cooling setup.)

9. Did I make a wise choice, when it comes to cases? Will the included fans be more than sufficient? (Note: Other than buying a second 140mm fan for the front filter, I won't be adding additional/replacement fans unless you guys tell me to.)

10. Am I a fool for going with Windows 8?

11. With new consoles (which may allow for a potential jump in PC requirements) and DDR4 ram just around the corner, how quickly will I regret building this computer now?

12. Any advice for someone building a computer for the first time?

13. Anything else I should I know?


Thank you, in advance, for putting up with this lengthy post and for any assistance that you guys can provide.


This post was edited on 7/18 at 9:20 pm

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Posted by Mr Gardoki on 7/18 at 9:29 pm to LSUTigerfaninHtown
Definitely overkill for 1080p gaming even though I realize you wil be doing a bit more. How much are you willing to spend?


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Posted by LSUTigerfaninHtown on 7/18 at 9:33 pm to Mr Gardoki
quote:

How much are you willing to spend?

I feel that around $2500 should be my stopping point.



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Posted by UltimateHog on 7/18 at 9:40 pm to LSUTigerfaninHtown
Should go 1440p at that price point.


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Posted by stout on 7/18 at 9:44 pm to LSUTigerfaninHtown
It looks like you are just picking the most expensive parts you can find.

For $2500 you could have a much more powerful and overall better build.


This post was edited on 7/18 at 9:58 pm

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Posted by LSUTigerfaninHtown on 7/18 at 9:51 pm to stout
quote:

It looks like you are just picking the most expensive parts you can find.

That wasn't my intention. I followed examples and tinkered with them (a little bit).
quote:

For $2500 you could a much more powerful and overall better build.

And that's why I came here asking for help.

None of this is set in stone; I'm willing to listen.



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Posted by LSU Coyote on 7/18 at 9:56 pm to LSUTigerfaninHtown
I love helping anyone out with PC stuff..

..but these generic build threads are tiring.

EDIT:
If you're spending 2.5K, get all SSDs with no mechanicals. That will make your gaming experience much better.. screw the load times.


This post was edited on 7/18 at 9:58 pm

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Posted by ILikeLSUToo on 7/18 at 9:56 pm to LSUTigerfaninHtown
Painting a room right now and helping tehchampion over steam. Once all that's settled down tonight, I'll come back to this thread and do what I do.


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Posted by ILikeLSUToo on 7/18 at 9:57 pm to LSU Coyote
quote:

I love helping anyone out with PC stuff..

..but these generic build threads are tiring.


I'm in full force working on that guide we talked about a long time ago. That should at least help create more honed/informed build threads.



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Posted by LSU Coyote on 7/18 at 10:00 pm to ILikeLSUToo
quote:

I'm in full force working on that guide we talked about a long time ago. That should at least help create more honed/informed build threads.

You are doing a great service to this board.

Unsung hero.



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Posted by Mikebandit on 7/18 at 10:11 pm to LSUTigerfaninHtown
quote:

This build ended up being around $2400



Making my build feel like its the dust coming off the fans of yours.....



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Posted by puffulufogous on 7/19 at 1:04 am to LSUTigerfaninHtown
My first question is do you plan on doing any overclocking to your cpu or gpu? If the answer is no or maybe, which it likely is, then you can back down on that mobo. I have been supremely happy with my 120 dollar asrock board which has overclocked my 3570k to a reasonable level. Do not pick a motherboard based on its wifi capability. You have chosen a top of the line gpu which won't need SLI, so there are plenty of PCI and PCI-E slots for an inexpensive ($15) wireless card.

16GB of ram is fine but by no means should you pay 176 dollars for it. The board you chose, and any other ATX board for that matter, will have 4 slots for ram so 4x4 is appropriate. This should not be more than 140 dollars. Will defer to RAM gurus on here who can guide you toward something with low CAS latency and decent clocks for much less money.

Your storage options are too expensive. $140 for 128GB of SSD and $150 for 2TB of HDD is way too much. 2 Tb seagate barracudas should run around $90.

Based on your description you absolutely do not need a $660 GPU, especially at 1080p. I know that the 780s are very nice, but at 1080 you would do well with a 760. If you are interested in looking at a 1440 monitor then you could look at a 7970 or the 780, but it doesn't sound like what you will be doing. You will not be able to tell a difference over 35 fps, so you are dumping a TON of money into performance that you won't utilize.

Case is excellent.

The fractal fans that come with the case are fine, but not worth $17, especially if your case is not windowed so continuity of fan does not matter.

Personally, if I am spending that kind of money on a keyboard I want something mechanical. Do you have a keyboard already that could bridge the gap until you find the right keyboard with the mechanical switches you want for a reasonable price?

Rest of the build is fine.

General notes: overclocking is FREE performance. It is best to utilize the overclocking potential of your system provided that it performs well and is not too hot. Power supply should be something quality like seasonic or corsair. Deferring to others here. Unless you are using your PC to push your home audio system or if you value crystal clear audio and have higher end headphones, then on board audio will be fine. It's one of those things you don't notice until it is there. Do not worry about what consoles are doing. The system we are configuring will trash the next set of consoles. Switching to DDR4 will not be worth rebuilding your system. Whether or not you regret building now will depend on how much you need the latest hardware. Several people on the board are still very happy with their 3 and 4 year old systems.



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Posted by LSUTigerfaninHtown on 7/19 at 1:22 am to puffulufogous
quote:

puffulufogous

Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it.

quote:

Your storage options are too expensive. $140 for 128GB of SSD and $150 for 2TB of HDD is way too much. 2 Tb seagate barracudas should run around $90.


Should I also be paying less for a 128GB SSD? If so, what should I be looking for?
quote:

I know that the 780s are very nice, but at 1080 you would do well with a 760.

When I originally configured this build, I had chosen a 770. I bumped it up to a 780 to see what the reaction would be. When gaming at 1080, is there any reason to go with the 770 over the 760?
quote:

General notes: overclocking is FREE performance. It is best to utilize the overclocking potential of your system provided that it performs well and is not too hot.

To be perfectly honest, the only thing preventing me from overclocking on day one is my fear of destroying expensive components.



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Posted by ILikeLSUToo on 7/19 at 1:23 am to LSUTigerfaninHtown
Wall of text coming soon.


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Posted by LSUTigerfaninHtown on 7/19 at 1:24 am to ILikeLSUToo
quote:

Wall of text coming soon.

I'm looking forward to it.



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Posted by ILikeLSUToo on 7/19 at 1:55 am to LSUTigerfaninHtown
Read this. It took me over an hour’s worth of amphetamines to write it, and it’s so long that it exceeds the allowed word count per post, so I have to divide it into two posts.
quote:

1. Am I on the right track with this configuration, or am I way off? Overall, did I make wise choices in components? If not, where did I go wrong?

On the right track? In the loosest of terms, yes. You have configured a PC that will function and play games very well. Did you make wise choices? No, but that's why we are here. Where did you go wrong? Well, read on.

quote:

2. Did I choose a quality motherboard? Is there a better option? (Note: I went with the deluxe model because of it having 802.11ac Wi-Fi capability, although I may always use the ethernet port.)

You're dumping $120 too much into a motherboard. Why are you planning on gaming on a wireless connection using a stationary desktop machine with gigabit ethernet? Why do you think you need wireless AC? Do you frequently move tons of data across your network, with a dozen devices accessing it at one time while you stream an HD movie? Do you think it will somehow affect your internet connection?

That motherboard has more features than you need or understand. If you want wireless, get a PCI card or a USB adapter if you insist.

quote:

3. Regarding the CPU, how did I do? Should I have gone with a different CPU? Will a quad-core processor be more than sufficient (for now and the future)?


I have that CPU. I delidded it and have it in a custom loop. It performs very well. Don’t look at cores or clock speeds just as a determining factor. The i7’s hyperthreading allows it act as an 8-core CPU, executing two threads simultaneously while sharing the resources of one core. But it rapes AMD processors, even the ones with 8 physical cores. There is currently no AMD chip that competes with it (doesn’t mean AMD chips are bad, as they do have tremendous bang-for-buck.)

Do you live near a Microcenter or know someone who does? If not, you won't be paying $279.99 for it. That price is not an online price. Expect to pay more like $340-350 online.

Based on the rest of your build, I feel like you selected that CPU without understanding why, and unless you are doing a lot of CPU-intensive tasks besides gaming (video editing/encoding, 3d modeling, and so on), you probably don’t need that CPU. If you want it, you can get it. There’s no better CPU for that price, but you can put that money into better things, or just save it. If you were going to back off the processor, the AMD 8350 is a great choice. It’s not as good of a performer as the i5-4650k (sorry, but it’s not) or the 4770k of course, but it does offer a better bang for buck. And most importantly, it is far from being a bottleneck to your GPU and overall gaming performance. That’s the important part.

quote:

4. After thinking about it for a while, I've decided that I won't be overclocking my CPU immediately (is that a mistake?). With that being the case, would it still be a good idea to purchase a replacement CPU cooler or will the included Intel cooler be more than sufficient? If the former is the case, can you recommend one?


Learn the basics before you overclock. But even so, your motherboard (the one I choose for you) will have some basic auto-overclocking features that are noob friendly and require no tweaking on your part. Get a hyper 212+. Barely a drop in the bucket in your overall budget, and will perform far better than the stock cooler in either intel or AMD. Stock coolers are notorious for causing overheating and throttling during long gaming sessions, especially with the heat coming off your other components (video card) adding to the ambient temperature inside your case, stock coolers just suck. And even if you never get any shutdowns or throttling, you are shortening the life of your CPU by letting it sit at 80-90c while you game.

quote:

5. Does this video card make sense, when you consider my needs? (Note: I don't want to "cut costs" only to upgrade my video card a year later.)

That’s the current cream of the crop single-GPU card out right now, except for the $1,000 Titan. If I had to buy a new GPU today, I’d get the 780. But I’m gaming at 1440p. You, however, have selected two 1080p monitors.

I have questions for you:
1. You understand that you would really only be gaming on one monitor, right? I assume you selected the second one for productivity reasons (I have two monitors as well). If you’re interested in multiple monitor gaming, let me know. I’m going to assume you aren’t, though.
2. Are you aware of 1440p gaming and the Korean IPS/PLS monitors available on ebay for around $300?
3. Do you have desk space for a 27” monitor along with a secondary monitor for whatever you need it for? Who cares, make space for it.

If you are spending this kind of money on a gaming computer, the absolute stupidest thing you could do is use it for 1080p gaming. No other way to put it. You’re getting a 1440p monitor, or you’re lowering your hardware budget significantly.

quote:

6. As far as the power supply is concerned, I really don't know what I'm doing (imagine that). Can you recommend a power supply for this configuration? (Note: I don't want to go with the bare minimum for power, I would like some "headroom." I've seen the "estimated wattage" on pcpartpicker and I did a quick calculation using the eXtreme power supply calculator, but I want reassurance from actual human beings.)


I think head room is good for PSUs, too, as long as you aren’t spending a stupid amount of money for the extra wattage. There is a lot to be said about PSUs and selecting the right one. I’m planning to cover some of that in a guide I’m writing, but it’s too much to talk about here. So in the PC Partpicker link in my next post, I have selected a PSU for you. The one I have selected takes into account the following:
1. You one day decide to overclock your CPU and video card a little bit.
2. Capacitor aging, which reduces output by a small amount over a long period of frequent or continuous operation.
3. Adding an extra GTX 780 later down the road.

It’s more wattage than what you currently need, but a good power supply should last you through multiple upgrades and add-ons. This one will.
You can take my word for it and purchase that one, OR if someone suggests a cheaper bronze, silver, or gold PSU of similar wattage that’s made by Seasonic, XFX, OCZ, PCPnP, or Corsair. There might be other acceptable brands, but it doesn’t matter.

quote:

7. You may have noticed that I didn't include a sound card, is this a terrible, terrible mistake?

Nope, just fine. I have well over $2,000 in my tower alone, and I’m still using onboard sound. Unless you’re considering making a mini recording studio and layin down some tracks. And then you’ll need a pretty high-end low latency card and extremely quiet cooling in your case.

quote:

8. What else, if anything, should I do/purchase to keep the components cool? (I really don't have a firm grasp on what constitutes a proper cooling setup.)

A cookie-cutter “proper” cooling setup for a gaming midtower consists of the following:
1. An aftermarket CPU cooler such as the hyper 212+
2. At least one fan pulling in air from the front of your case (or side, if front isn’t possible)
3. At least one fan exhausting air out the back of your case
4. One fan exhausting air out the top of your case

That’s a good air cooling setup, but of course there’s always better for the more extreme overclockers or hobbyists.




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Posted by ILikeLSUToo on 7/19 at 1:58 am to ILikeLSUToo
quote:

9. Did I make a wise choice, when it comes to cases? Will the included fans be more than sufficient? (Note: Other than buying a second 140mm fan for the front filter, I won't be adding additional/replacement fans unless you guys tell me to.)


According to Newegg, the R4 case in your configuration comes with 2 fans and a side air duct. You could add a third (and the integrated fan controller will allow 3), but you’d probably be just fine without the third. It’s not clear from the pictures where that second fan is, though. Also, that’s overpriced for the fan you chose. I’m sure you wanted it to match, but the case doesn’t have a window. Really, just skip the extra fan.

Maybe someone here has real-life experience with that case. I know it’s popular. Looks good to me, and the brand is great. I generally don’t give much advice on what case to choose because no one ever listens to anyone about cases. They want what they want.

quote:

10. Am I a fool for going with Windows 8?


You’re a fool for purchasing it. Most of us here don’t pay for Windows, but that’s a different topic.

quote:

11. With new consoles (which may allow for a potential jump in PC requirements) and DDR4 ram just around the corner, how quickly will I regret building this computer now?


DDR4 isn’t going to be anything amazing. The biggest factor here is choosing the right GPU with enough memory. I can’t argue with the fact that today’s games, even at 1440p, are using more than 2GB of memory, but I do know that with next gen consoles around the corner, HD gaming becoming the norm, games are gearing up to be memory hogs by design. Remember, a LOT of popular PC titles are console ports, ports that were originally designed to use 512MB vram max. The next gen consoles are going to have access to several GB of memory for their GPUs (even after you factor in the memory for the console’s OS, networking, and the other background functions). Those PS4 and XBox One ports will be part of our list of things to play, and I think 3GB cards for PC gaming will become more important than ever. Arguably, you might say the 770 4GB is big contender, but I think the 780 performance is going to prevail for the future, paired with that 3GB of memory.

An AMD 7970 is also a great performer at 1440p, and opting for that would save you about $300 (significant), and you could later down the road add a second one in crossfire (and by that time the price of a 7970 will have fallen more and you could get one secondhand for a steal). But since you have a bigger budget, and the 780 is the better card with even more room to grow with driver updates, we’ll keep the 780.

But the bottom line is, if you take my advice on the build, you won’t ever regret it.

quote:

12. Any advice for someone building a computer for the first time?

See above.

quote:

13. Anything else I should I know?

Yes. I have reconfigured your build to make better use of your funds.

LINK

My goal was not to lower your budget, but to optimize it for the best performance per dollar. Incidentally, the configuration came in under budget once I was finished. That’s how it usually happens.

I have only included a single monitor (1440p). Left out the single monitor, as well as the keyboard and mouse, to show the core gaming setup in all its glory. But, since this whole ultra setup with mega-fantastic orgasmic monitor still comes in at less than $2,000 (including a double capacity SSD with faster performance), I think you’ll be able to find another productivity monitor and keyboard with that remaining $500, and still have enough left over for an honest copy of Windows and a cheap hooker.

If you have any questions about why I chose something, please ask. Don’t assume I left something off by mistake (i.e., I selected 8GB of RAM for a reason), nor assume that I know absolutely everything you need this PC to do.


This post was edited on 7/19 at 2:05 am

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Posted by LSUTigerfaninHtown on 7/19 at 2:17 am to ILikeLSUToo
You guys are being incredibly helpful.

quote:

Do you live near a Microcenter or know someone who does? If not, you won't be paying $279.99 for it. That price is not an online price. Expect to pay more like $340-350 online.


When I realized how low that price was, I investigated and found out that it wasn't an online price. Fortunately, I live very close to the Microcenter in Houston.

quote:

1. You understand that you would really only be gaming on one monitor, right? I assume you selected the second one for productivity reasons (I have two monitors as well). If you’re interested in multiple monitor gaming, let me know. I’m going to assume you aren’t, though.


You were correct in your assumption.

quote:

2. Are you aware of 1440p gaming and the Korean IPS/PLS monitors available on ebay for around $300?


Yes to the former. No to the latter.

quote:

3. Do you have desk space for a 27” monitor along with a secondary monitor for whatever you need it for? Who cares, make space for it.


I have the space, but I'm used to being pretty close to my desk which is why I went with the 21.5" monitors. I am thinking about having one 24" or 27" monitor, though.

quote:

If you are spending this kind of money on a gaming computer, the absolute stupidest thing you could do is use it for 1080p gaming. No other way to put it. You’re getting a 1440p monitor, or you’re lowering your hardware budget significantly.


I had originally decided to avoid 1440p gaming because of the price of 1440p monitors, but if I can get one for $300… I would definitely be interested.

quote:

(i.e., I selected 8GB of RAM for a reason)

What would that reason be?


This post was edited on 7/19 at 2:34 am

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Posted by ILikeLSUToo on 7/19 at 2:56 am to LSUTigerfaninHtown
Strike what I said about selecting 8GB of RAM. I kind of wrote stuff out of order, and was still on the fence about intel vs AMD and how much room there'd be left in the budget. There is definitely enough room for you to just grab another kit of that 8GB i listed.

General rule of thumb for gaming PCs is that 8GB is optimal and 16gb is still overkill, but higher end systems tend to get used in environments beyond gaming, with the potential for a lot of other shite running at the same time.

Trust me, with 1440p you don't need to back up from the monitor. You can sit as close as you comfortably could with a smaller 1080p monitor.



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Posted by LSUTigerfaninHtown on 7/19 at 3:19 am to ILikeLSUToo
Well, I took everything you and puffulufogous said into account and came up with this:

quote:

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($279.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($19.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus Z87-PRO ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($180.00 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($214.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($89.98 @ Outlet PC)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 780 3GB Video Card ($659.99 @ NCIX US)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($93.49 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: XFX ProSeries 850W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($104.99 @ NCIX US)
Optical Drive: Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Blu-Ray Reader, DVD/CD Writer ($56.22 @ Outlet PC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.73 @ Outlet PC)
Monitor: Asus VS229H-P 21.5" Monitor ($134.02 @ Amazon)
Other: 1440p Monitor ($307.90)
Total: $2371.27

LINK

I stuck with the Intel CPU because you mentioned video editing and it's only an extra $80 for what seems to be a significantly better CPU.

Thoughts?

ETA: By the way, the second fan on this case is located at the front. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, considering the front will be covered by the door. Am I missing something here?


This post was edited on 7/19 at 4:18 am

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