Re: NSA; Second whistleblower comes forward... EU Pissed
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Re: NSA; Second whistleblower comes forward... EU Pissed
Posted by Lsut81 on 6/30 at 10:32 am
quote:

The NSA has been working with at least seven European other countries to collect personal communications data, according to Wayne Madsen, a former NSA contractor who has come forward because he thinks the public should not be “kept in the dark.” According to Madsen, Denmark, the Netherlands, France, Germany, Spain and Italy all have formed secret agreements with the US to submit sensitive data.

Under international intelligence agreements, confirmed by declassified documents, nations are categorised by the US according to their trust level. The US is first party while the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand enjoy second party relationships. Germany and France have third party relationships.

In an interview published last night on the PrivacySurgeon.org blog, Madsen, who has been attacked for holding controversial views on espionage issues, said he had decided to speak out after becoming concerned about the “half story” told by EU politicians regarding the extent of the NSA’s activities in Europe.

He said that under the agreements, which were drawn up after the second world war, the “NSA gets the lion’s share” of the sigint “take”. In return, the third parties to the NSA agreements received “highly sanitised intelligence”.

The news could be potentially damaging to countries, particularly Germany, whose chancellor Angela Merkel has vocally condemned the NSA program that recently came to light by whistleblower Edward Snowden.


LINK /

quote:

The Guardian has since published a follow-up story that reports that “The president of the European parliament has called for full clarification from the US over claims it bugged EU offices in America and accessed computer networks.”




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Posted by Volvagia on 6/30 at 10:49 am to Lsut81
I wonder what this says about me that I care dramatically less about this.


Hey, those country's citizenry could have every right to be outraged.

They aren't protected by our constitution though. As long as we didn't extort the agreement out of them, don't really care.



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Posted by Lsut81 on 6/30 at 10:55 am to Volvagia
It just goes to show you that what Snowden released wasn't that harming to anyone... All of these countries knew what was going on and are doing it themselves.

Funny though that the EU comes out bashing the US over doing it and now they have been caught doing the exact same thing.




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Posted by novabill on 6/30 at 10:58 am to Volvagia
It is treason to tell anything that may make the US look bad.

Treason used to be a crime that was committed when you helped those countries that were at war, or were enemies of out country. Not anymore. It is treason if you expose the government and make them look bad.



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Posted by Volvagia on 6/30 at 11:02 am to novabill
Oh well that's a murky area.

I didn't realize that it was an American spewing this.


I didn't have a problem with Snowden.

I have a bit of a problem with this. And it's growing the more I think of this.



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Posted by LSUgusto on 6/30 at 11:03 am to Lsut81
Does this mean the world doesn't love us?


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Posted by novabill on 6/30 at 11:06 am to Volvagia
I have no problem with anyone that exposes our government doing things they should not.

That is not to say that everything should come out. If we have spies in Russia, China, Iran and are listening to them, well we are supposed to; so do it, continue to do it and do not tell us about it.

But, if you are going to spy on us, and use the same program to spy on our friends and help them to spy on their own, I am not concerned about someone blowing the whistle to expose our criminal government.



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Posted by Lsut81 on 6/30 at 11:09 am to LSUgusto
quote:

Does this mean the world doesn't love us?


According to Obama, they should fear and respect us.... In his paraphrased words

"I shouldn't have to call China or Russia"

His arrogance is hilarious... But then on the other end, he's got Biden calling people

quote:

Vice President Biden has asked Ecuador to turn down an asylum request from National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden, the country's president said Saturday.


LINK

The reason? Because it won't look as bad when Biden gets slapped in the face instead of Obama.



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Posted by Navtiger1 on 6/30 at 11:09 am to Lsut81
I don't see the problem with this. The NSA and CIA are supposed to spy on foreign countries. That is their mission and purpose in life. The only issue i have is them spying inward on US citizens. Those self-righteous countries bitch spy and hack us all the time.

As for this whistle blower, he is worse than Snowden. You don't make public our espionage against foreign nations that is pushing treason.



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Posted by Volvagia on 6/30 at 11:11 am to Navtiger1
quote:

I don't see the problem with this. The NSA and CIA are supposed to spy on foreign countries. That is their mission and purpose in life. The only issue i have is them spying inward on US citizens. Those self-righteous countries bitch spy and hack us all the time.

As for this whistle blower, he is worse than Snowden. You don't make public our espionage against foreign nations that is pushing treason.



You could have been quoting my monologue as I was typing my last post.



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Posted by Decatur on 6/30 at 11:16 am to Lsut81
The original article has been pulled. From The Telegraph:

quote:

The Guardian/Observer website has just pulled an exclusive front-page report about "secret European deals to hand over private data to America" – prompting cries of "Wow! MASSIVE FAIL by The Guardian" on Twitter. Why was the story pulled after publication? Because its highly unreliable source is Wayne Madsen, an unusual gentleman who (the Guardian/Observer now realises too late) has in the past jumped on the Birther bandwagon – and also suggested that Barack Obama is gay (which he isn't).


On phone so no link but anyone can google the quote above.



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Posted by novabill on 6/30 at 11:22 am to Navtiger1
quote:

As for this whistle blower, he is worse than Snowden. You don't make public our espionage against foreign nations that is pushing treason.


If I remember correctly you wanted Snowden's head on a platter for letting us know that big brother was spying on us?

Seems you think the government should be able to spy on anyone at anytime.

Are you part of the power structure? I have found myself agreeing with some folks I did not think I ever would, and disagreeing with some I thought would have been opposed to big brother. The difference was that those in power (big brother) were in favor of big brother spying.



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Posted by Navtiger1 on 6/30 at 11:32 am to novabill
I think you are confusing me with someone else. I have never said i wanted his head on a platter. I did say he was wrong and should face justice. He intentionally took a job with an NSA contractor to gain information and leak it. That is a nefarious intention. I also said that the NSA was given the power to spy on us by the PATRIOT ACT. I don’t like it, but the PA was passed renewed and expanded numerous times.

I also do believe our government should spy on every other country because they spy on us. As many intelligence agencies will say "In God we trust and all other we monitor".

As for the question am I part of the power structure? Well i do work for the government so I guess yes in your eyes I am.



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Posted by LSUgusto on 6/30 at 11:32 am to Decatur
Decatur attacking the source.

Already on his Wiki page:
quote:

On June 30, 2013, The Observer in London published a story, whose principal source was Madsen, alleging connections between the National Security Agency and several European governments. The article was quickly removed from the parent (Guardian) newspaper's website, but not before the print edition had gone to press.



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Posted by Lsut81 on 6/30 at 11:35 am to Decatur
quote:

The original article has been pulled. From The Telegraph:



AP is carrying the story

LINK



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Posted by Navytiger74 on 6/30 at 11:36 am to Navtiger1
quote:

I think you are confusing me with someone else


Probably me...



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Posted by Navtiger1 on 6/30 at 11:38 am to Navytiger74
You still in Bahrain? Spent 2 years there. Don't miss the heat, not that SC is much better!


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Posted by Jbird on 6/30 at 11:38 am to novabill
quote:

If I remember correctly you wanted Snowden's head on a platter for letting us know that big brother was spying on us?


Wrong guy I think you are referring to Navytiger.



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Posted by novabill on 6/30 at 11:39 am to Navtiger1
I can agree Navy that what they were doing may be legal due to the PA, does not mean it is right.

Because I think it is wrong, I appreciate Snowden for exposing the wrong doing. Yes, he may go to jail for "breaking the rule" but in my mind it will be for doing the right thing.

You seem to support and approve of the rules that allows big brother to spy on us, thus your desire to see him punished

When people break laws I disagree with, I want them to get away with it, when they break the laws I agree with, I want to see them punished. I suspect I am not alone in this.



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Posted by Navtiger1 on 6/30 at 11:42 am to novabill
quote:

You seem to support and approve of the rules that allows big brother to spy on us, thus your desire to see him punished


Not sure i get what you are saying here. Don't support the PA i think its crap! However, Snowden broke the law. So, he must face justice for it. However, the PA should be ruled Unconstitutional!



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