Is it really probable that Gordon gets moved at all?
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re: Is it really probable that Gordon gets moved at all?
Posted by Jester on 5/13 at 10:18 am to slutiger5
quote:

I bet Indiana would be interested in getting rid of old West and Grangers contract.


No way in hell. They have a manageable payroll and are leading the conference semis. Why would they blow it up?



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Posted by Gtothemoney on 5/13 at 10:22 am to Jester
quote:

but if they trade him and get any positive value, then they were pretty much justified in resigning him.


If you were a GM/Owner, would you take on his contract with his track record?

Yes, we may get some expiring contracts, but that doesn't put us in a position to win sooner than later. We have the cap space now. We need difference makers.



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Posted by slutiger5 on 5/13 at 10:24 am to Jester
Granger is making alot to sit on the bench, making 13 mill. West is due for his final contract negotiation sitting around 10 mill. If they bring in another scorer then hansbrough can become a rodman and help hibbert. Just an idea, being gordon is loved in indi.


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Posted by brmark70816 on 5/13 at 10:26 am to Fun Bunch
quote:

I know you're not the brightest guy on here, but what does his mean? Dumping Paul?


Is the personal attack really warranted? What are you trying to prove with it? Have I ever said something on here and not backed it up?

Yes we dumped him. We traded him a year before we had to, took a bunch of crap in return and turned a playoff team into a bottom 5 team. It's that simple. All we have in return now is the option on Aminu (unless someone offers him more than 3 or so million), a horrible contract in Gordon and a super raw combo guard that had one of the worst seasons in history.

quote:

What was the alternative? Do you know what went down? Its not like we had a choice.


Of course I know what happened. He pitched a fit and the front office paniced. How many other max free agents walk away without a S&T? Please name me one...

The choice was, we actually put some players around Paul and have a decent season. The offseason comes and then you S&T him. The rebuild is put back a year or maybe he resigns and the team goes a totally different way. It was a bad trade.

quote:

The LAC trade was, BY FAR, the best one at the time. It was infinitely better for a rebuilding team than the LAL/HOU.


I wouldn't have done either one. It was a bad trade that made the team horrible. That's a fact. Getting garbage back doesn't make it any more bearable.

quote:

Its not really up for debate. GMs don't have crystal balls


I just debated it. Nothing had to be done. They didn't have to trade him. It was a panic move that the league forced to put a superstar in a big market. I would have rather kept Paul, the same guy everybody pretty much wants back.

The fact remains, we traded away one of the best players in the league and the greatest player in franchise history for pretty much nothing. Name me a worst trade, for the Hornets..



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Posted by Jester on 5/13 at 10:56 am to brmark70816
quote:

Yes we dumped him.


Bull shite. He dumped us and we had to get what we could out of it.

quote:

We traded him a year before we had to, took a bunch of crap in return and turned a playoff team into a bottom 5 team.


This is just stupid. Yeah, we became a bottom 5 team as part of a CLEAR rebuild as indicated by the the sunken salaries we paid this past year.

quote:

All we have in return now is the option on Aminu (unless someone offers him more than 3 or so million), a horrible contract in Gordon and a super raw combo guard that had one of the worst seasons in history.


And the best player to enter the league in several 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Posted by Jester on 5/13 at 10:57 am to brmark70816
quote:

I wouldn't have done either one. It was a bad trade that made the team horrible. That's a fact. Getting garbage back doesn't make it any more bearable.


And this is how we get to:

quote:

I know you're not the brightest guy on here



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Posted by Jester on 5/13 at 10:59 am to brmark70816
quote:

The fact remains, we traded away one of the best players in the league and the greatest player in franchise history for pretty much nothing. Name me a worst trade, for the Hornets..


A player who made it abundantly clear that he would not resign. Any value we got for him is way more than the value brmark would have gotten for him (nothing).

Sorry, but arguing that we should have held onto Paul at that point is just stupid.



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Posted by brmark70816 on 5/13 at 11:13 am to Jester
I really did have higher hopes for this forum. But more name calling. It's just sad..

quote:

A player who made it abundantly clear that he would not resign.


So what? Half of the league would rather play for other teams. He was under contract for another season. You keep him and maybe he changes his mind, like he has done 4 times this season.

quote:

Any value we got for him is way more than the value brmark would have gotten for him (nothing).


I'm going to say this one more time, cause no one seems to get it. He wouldn't have walked away for nothing. No major free agent ever has. The team would have done a S&T. Cleveland and Toronto both got them. The Lakers will get one if Howard leaves.

quote:

Sorry, but arguing that we should have held onto Paul at that point is just stupid.


Whether it is or not (and it really doesn't matter now), it's a bad trade. Slice it how you want. I don't care if they didn't have a choice, you took something great and traded it for something really bad. That makes it a bad trade by definition. How am I wrong?



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Posted by Gtothemoney on 5/13 at 11:15 am to brmark70816
Am I missing something? Cleveland got what for Lebron? Not trying to be a dick.


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Posted by Jester on 5/13 at 11:18 am to brmark70816
quote:

Whether it is or not (and it really doesn't matter now), it's a bad trade.


You are just flat out wrong. Slice it however you want it.



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Posted by WB504 on 5/13 at 11:19 am to Gtothemoney
quote:

The Heat sent Cleveland two first-round draft picks and two second-round picks, as well as a large trade exception, for James. The first-round picks could be between 2013 and 2017. The second-round picks are in 2012 (acquired from New Orleans) and a future pick acquired from Oklahoma City. For some reason, the Cavs will have the option to swap 2012 first-round picks with the Heat as well. The trade exception can be used within one year.



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Posted by Jester on 5/13 at 11:19 am to brmark70816
quote:

Cleveland and Toronto both got them.


Okay, and what were these big hauls?



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Posted by Gtothemoney on 5/13 at 11:20 am to WB504
Gotcha. Thanks.


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Posted by Fun Bunch on 5/13 at 11:23 am to brmark70816
quote:

Is the personal attack really warranted? What are you trying to prove with it? Have I ever said something on here and not backed it up?


Yeah, it is pretty warranted. However, its not something that I should be doing and I apologize for taking it to that level. I've got an aggravating situation at work and should not have taken it there.

But I'm sorry, your opinions on here are just laughably bad. I'm sorry man. It is just the truth. I have to imagine you're 16 years old, or in that range, because you clearly know very little about how the league actually works.

To call the Chris Paul situation a "dump" is just ignorant.


This post was edited on 5/13 at 11:24 am

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Posted by Jester on 5/13 at 11:24 am to Fun Bunch
quote:

I've got an aggravating situation at work and should not have taken it their.


GRAMMAR BOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!!



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Posted by brmark70816 on 5/13 at 11:31 am to Fun Bunch
quote:

But I'm sorry, your opinions on here are just laughably bad. I'm sorry man. It is just the truth. I have to imagine you're 16 years old, or in that range, because you clearly know very little about how the league actually works.


You give it and take it right back away. I'm way over 16 and I love basketball. That doesn't make me an expert or that knowledgable, but I have my opinions and I defend them. Maybe you know more than me and that's fine, prove it and bring it. Personally I love the debate.

quote:

To call the Chris Paul situation a "dump" is just ignorant


I don't get your defense of this. Did the team want to trade him? Did they get full value? Was the team better afterwards?

Maybe they took the best deal, at the time, but it wasn't ideal. I call it a dump, cause they got back so little in return. Maybe it's the wrong word, but it doesn't change the fact that it sucked. I still don't get why this upset so many people on here either. Was it a good trade? A fair trade? If it wasn't either one, then doesn't that make it a bad trade?




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Posted by LosLobos111 on 5/13 at 11:32 am to brmark70816
I'd rather have AD/Rivers/Ryno/EG than scola/martin/Odom/whatever

The latter group would've put us at 35 wins a year and in NBA hell



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Posted by Jester on 5/13 at 11:37 am to brmark70816
quote:

Maybe they took the best deal, at the time, but it wasn't ideal. I call it a dump, cause they got back so little in return. Maybe it's the wrong word, but it doesn't change the fact that it sucked. I still don't get why this upset so many people on here either. Was it a good trade? A fair trade? If it wasn't either one, then doesn't that make it a bad trade?



A forced trade and a dump are two totally different things. A forced trade is a player with good value that undercuts that value. He wants out, so you lose your "then we'll just keep him" chip (which is the biggest one in the stack).

Now, for a dump, that is when a player becomes a negative asset, so you "dump" him for anything from 3 turds to a ham sandwich just to get him off the roster. That is what some people, including yourself, want to do with Gordon. However, "dumping" Gordon only further weakens what you have already decided was a bad trade. So, you are arguing against bad trades while actively trying to make a bad trade worse.



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Posted by tehchampion140 on 5/13 at 11:46 am to brmark70816
quote:

brmark70816


What you're not grasping about this whole CP trade is that, while yes, we could have done a sign and trade the next offseason, our backs would've been against the ropes and we certainly would not get the same value as we did the prior offseason. CP did a good thing for us by letting us know he would not stay, because we actually had some leverage with him still being under contract. If a team really wanted him but tried to lowball us on a trade, we could tell them to frick off and keep CP for another year. In the S&T situation, you pretty much have to take what they want to give you or you get nothing.

Also, holding on to CP3 would have us in the same exact rebuild minus one of the best prospects to come out of college in a very long time. And you thought this year's team was painful to watch?



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Posted by brmark70816 on 5/13 at 11:47 am to Jester
Fair enough, I'll concede that point. It was a forced trade. Although I don't agree it had to be done, but I see the difference.

quote:

However, "dumping" Gordon only further weakens what you have already decided was a bad trade


I don't see it as salvageable. IMO Gordon getting hurt or regressing is inevitable. I have never had a high opinion of the guy though. So I admit I'm biased.



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