Anyone heard these Optometrist vs. Ophthalmologist radio commercials?
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re: Anyone heard these Optometrist vs. Ophthalmologist radio commercials?
Posted by Boats n Hose on 4/25 at 8:58 pm to SlowFlowPro
Opthamologists are surgeons. They train in surgery for years beyond medical school. Optometrists do not.


Regardless, this entire argument comes down to money. Optometrists want the money you can charge for surgeries. Ophthalmologists don't want to lose new patients (and their money) to optometrists. Their arguments are just a means to an end.

Money drives healthcare in the US of A


This post was edited on 4/25 at 8:59 pm

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Posted by SlowFlowPro on 4/25 at 8:59 pm to Boats n Hose
quote:

Opthamologists are surgeons. They train in surgery for years beyond medical school. Optometrists do not.

well i don't think your random optometrist would get insured without some training in the surgeries

and the person buying the service should know this regardless

quote:

Ophthalmologists don't want to lose new patients to optometrists.

and they're using big government to do it



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Posted by Boats n Hose on 4/25 at 9:02 pm to SlowFlowPro
Meh. I don't like seeing healthcare move more towards a free market. It shouldn't be profit driven at all IMO. I don't care if that makes me a hypocrite. Goal should be best patient care possible.


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Posted by Adam Banks on 4/25 at 9:18 pm to foshizzle
quote:

Are you a professional in the field? If not, I doubt your qualifications to say


I am a health care profressional but this is common knowledge.
You are uniformed

LINK

This is an easy explanation from an OPTOMETRIST'S site



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Posted by Dennis ODell on 4/25 at 9:18 pm to SlowFlowPro
I'm still waiting for one of the champions of absolute free markets in health care to answer the question I asked on page 23 - what's the free market value of your life in an emergent situation? I think free markets can help health care, but all regulations are not necessarily bad.


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Posted by foshizzle on 4/26 at 6:59 am to Boats n Hose
quote:

If you don't see the flaws in that comparison you obviously don't know what you're talking about.


Just as in the legal profession, a surgeon doesn't normally just come out of medical school and immediately begin doing surgery as a "skilled surgeon". No, he first goes to a seminar/practicum taught by someone who is an acknowledged expert to learn how it's done. Then he works with someone who's done it before for awhile.

Notice that in 20+ states you don't have to go to medical school to go this route. Somehow these states don't have lots more blind people.

Sounds like you don't know what you're talking about.



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Posted by NaturalBeam on 4/26 at 7:15 am to Boats n Hose
quote:

Goal should be best patient care possible.
sure, and that undoubtedly occurs with a free market. Best products and services at most efficient prices.



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Posted by Boats n Hose on 4/26 at 7:19 am to NaturalBeam
quote:

sure, and that undoubtedly occurs with a free market. Best products and services at most efficient prices.

Not even close. What happens is doctors billing for as much as the pt's insurance is willing to pay for. Not all of them, but it happens a lot.



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Posted by NaturalBeam on 4/26 at 7:21 am to Dennis ODell
quote:

I'm still waiting for one of the champions of absolute free markets in health care to answer the question I asked on page 23 - what's the free market value of your life in an emergent situation?
Anecdotal exigent circumstances don't invalidate the principles of a free market. If a hurricane wiped out all sources of water, I'd gladly purchase a bottle of water from you for $20 if I was dying of thirst. That doesn't mean that bottle of water is worth the same to me in normal circumstances.

quote:

all regulations are not necessarily bad.
Absurd examples aside, I don't see anyone who argued that in this thread.



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Posted by NaturalBeam on 4/26 at 7:24 am to Boats n Hose
quote:

Not even close
You're wrong.

quote:

What happens is doctors billing for as much as the pt's insurance is willing to pay for
That's b/c we don't have a free health insurance market. If we did, insurance companies would be held to the same basic free market principles as other businesses are held to, and doctors could only charge what the market could bear.

You're effectively using a non-free market example to show why the free market doesn't work. That kind of absurdity is what the Dems used to argue for Obamacare, fwiw.


This post was edited on 4/26 at 7:33 am

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Posted by Dennis ODell on 4/26 at 8:48 am to NaturalBeam
quote:

Absurd examples aside

A life or death emergency in a hospital is not an absurd example
quote:

a hurricane wiped out all sources of water, I'd gladly purchase a bottle of water from you for $20 if I was dying of thirst.

There are laws preventing this.

I'm just pointing out that there are some situations in healthcare that should be regulated. You can't choose when or where you get sick, and sometimes you don't have the time to shop prices.



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Posted by Boats n Hose on 4/26 at 8:54 am to NaturalBeam
A true free market always leads to monopoly. Eventually. Some regulation is necessary.

Goal of healthcare should no be profit. That's just my opinion. I'm pretty conservative in most other respects.

Working in healthcare has made me dislike the idea of free market even more (in regards to healthcare)

This isn't a house, or a vehicle, or anything. It's people's lives. Rich or poor you should get the best care available. As far as we've come as a species we shouldn't have people going with mediocre or no healthcare.

End rant. This isn't even the argument in this thread. I have no dog in that fight, I just wanted an e fight.

Back to my booger threads



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Posted by Northgate on 4/26 at 8:58 am to Boats n Hose
(no message)

This post was edited on 4/26 at 9:25 am

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Posted by NaturalBeam on 4/26 at 9:04 am to Dennis ODell
quote:

I'm just pointing out that there are some situations in healthcare that should be regulated
I'd agree. Arguing for deregulation isn't the same as arguing for no regulation at all. There are probably some situations where non-intrusive regulations could benefit healthcare or any other market.

This opto/ophthal debate isn't one of them.



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Posted by SlowFlowPro on 4/26 at 9:06 am to Boats n Hose
quote:

I don't like seeing healthcare move more towards a free market.

quote:

Goal should be best patient care possible.

free markets serve customers, so i don't get your logic



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Posted by SlowFlowPro on 4/26 at 9:06 am to Dennis ODell
quote:

what's the free market value of your life in an emergent situation?

i don't know. there are a lot of factors to analyze

quote:

I think free markets can help health care, but all regulations are not necessarily bad.

why are you bringing up some random emergency example when we're talking about free choice in choosing your health provider



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Posted by SlowFlowPro on 4/26 at 9:08 am to Dennis ODell
quote:

There are laws preventing this.

stupid laws




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Posted by SlowFlowPro on 4/26 at 9:08 am to Boats n Hose
quote:

A true free market always leads to monopoly.

link?

government intervention in the economy leads to monopolies

quote:

Goal of healthcare should no be profit.

i disagree, becasue i want the best health care possible. that is only possible with a profit motive




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Posted by NaturalBeam on 4/26 at 9:13 am to Boats n Hose
quote:

Some regulation is necessary.
A very small amount, I agree.

quote:

Goal of healthcare should no be profit. That's just my opinion
Fair enough, I can't agree with that though. What incentive do healthcare providers have to provide healthcare if not for profit?

quote:

This isn't a house, or a vehicle, or anything. It's people's lives. Rich or poor you should get the best care available. As far as we've come as a species we shouldn't have people going with mediocre or no healthcare.
This is the beauty of the free market imo - it isn't swayed by emotional arguments like "save the children!!" - it reacts coldly to proven economic principles to provide the best quality at the most competitive prices. I understand you're uncomfortable with that in a healthcare scenario, but we'll just have to agree to disagree there


This post was edited on 4/26 at 9:14 am

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Posted by Boats n Hose on 4/26 at 9:13 am to SlowFlowPro
Maybe for you. What about the homeless guy on the street? How will he get the best care possible if the motive is profit? He won't. And that's why profit driven healthcare fails IMO. Having to turn away a patient because their insurance company isn't willing to pay, or because they have no insurance, is pretty terrible IMO.

You won't convince me dude. Like I said I'm pretty conservative but I can't agree with profit driven healthcare. It's not a business and should not be.



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