Analyzing Pelican Players and How to Fit Talents Together
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Analyzing Pelican Players and How to Fit Talents Together
Posted by corndeaux on 4/18 at 12:30 pm
Big summer for the Pels. Who to resign, who to draft, who to go after in FA? Where do they find the missing piece(s)? How do we make sense of the options that will work best for this team?

Tom Ziller and Bethleham Shoals were big on this idea of positional revolution. You can read about it here and here. They came up with a chart to depict a player's skill set and they called it the Z Graph:




The top row is traditional pg skillset and the bottom row is traditional c skillset. Most players will have linked skills (Lopez is only on the bottom, Vasquez is only the top), but a guy like Ryan Anderson is on both ends of the spectrum.

(If there is interest, the board could come to consensus on skills of players and perhaps someone with photoshop abilities could alter the chart for Pels players)

They also came up with a graph for how these skills overlap in a team context



This is from the 2010-2011 Heat, so it's outdated. But the idea is the same. Find a collection of players that cover all of the skills on the graph.

(Again, if there is interest, maybe some one with the photoshop know how could put it together?)

This is more of a blueprint than anything else. But it's a different way to think about building the team. This can help put context on where the team needs to focus on improving.



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Posted by Fun Bunch on 4/18 at 12:35 pm to corndeaux
I'm not going to lie. At first I looked at this and said: frick that. So goddamned complicated, I feel like its 15 years ago and I'm in a college math class.

But now I get it. Pretty cool tool.

And no I'm not doing it.



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Posted by Jester on 4/18 at 12:38 pm to corndeaux
quote:

Fit


I feel like z charts are a little quirky, but the idea is legit. Aminu filling the rebounding need is a perfect example from this year. What we need is more players with diverse skills.

However, as you can see, guys with lots of skills can make up for others with less than average skills.



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Posted by Jester on 4/18 at 12:39 pm to Jester
It probably wouldn't take much to create one for the 2012-2013 Hornets.


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Posted by Fun Bunch on 4/18 at 12:40 pm to Jester
quote:

as you can see, guys with lots of skills can make up for others with less than average skills.



Having Lebron James and Dwayne Wade probably helps.



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Posted by GumBro Jackson on 4/18 at 12:46 pm to Fun Bunch
Pretty cool. I like the idea. The only thing, I'm not sure about each player being all or nothing for each skill...you either have it or you don't...seems like maybe a rating per position would give a more complete picture.


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Posted by Fun Bunch on 4/18 at 12:53 pm to corndeaux
Vasquez: 3, Pa, Le, Fe, Rb
Gordon: 3, St, Pa, OD, Sc
Aminu: OD, Rb, ID, St
Davis: St, Le, Fe, OD, Md, %, ID, Rb, Bk
Lopez: Po, Rb, Po

I'm projecting on Davis because I think his Defense and Midrange game will improve greatly.

Agree at all with the list?



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Posted by TigerinATL on 4/18 at 12:57 pm to corndeaux
I understand the Periodic Table, but I'm a bit confused about the Airport Map. Is there a set number to aim for? Would Anderson be included even though he isn't a starter?


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Posted by teke184 on 4/18 at 12:58 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:

Lopez: Po, Rb, Po


You have "post scoring" twice



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Posted by teke184 on 4/18 at 12:59 pm to TigerinATL
quote:

You don't really aim for a set number as much as try to keep from having 1s and 0s if possible.



You do this for each lineup you use to see what the best mix is.

That's why they replaced Chalmers and Anthony with Miller and Haslem in the second graph.



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Posted by corndeaux on 4/18 at 1:07 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:

Jester


quote:

I feel like z charts are a little quirky, but the idea is legit


Yeah. We can change them around if we want. Not gospel, just hopefully a conversation starter.

quote:

Vasquez: 3 (?), Pa, Le, Fe, Rb
Gordon: 3, St, Pa, OD, Sc
Aminu: OD, Rb, ID (?), St
Davis: St, Le, Fe, OD, Md, %, ID, Rb, Bk
Lopez: Po, Rb, Po Bk


Bold ones are the only things I would differ. Lopez and blocks is the only one I feel strongly about.

Anderson: 3, Sc, Md, %, Rb (only because of his offensive rebounding)

quote:

I'm projecting on Davis because I think his Defense and Midrange game will improve greatly.


In time, I really think Davis will only be missing the 3 skill. He won't ever be a high assist guy, but he's got the potential to be a good passer.



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Posted by corndeaux on 4/18 at 1:10 pm to TigerinATL
quote:

Is there a set number to aim for?


I'm just making this up (edit- that is they don't state a particular #), but the more you have, the better your team will be. I think you can also look at it as a way to use that talent. If you did this for Houston, you would see lots of 3 and very little D. So using that talent to run and gun, like they have, makes sense.

quote:

Would Anderson be included even though he isn't a starter?


Yes. The second link has the explanation of this and includes other Miami units- with Miller and Haslem. So you could look at the Hornets best 5 and see how they stack up



This post was edited on 4/18 at 1:24 pm

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Posted by Jester on 4/18 at 1:56 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:

Vasquez: 3, Pa, Le, Fe, Rb
Gordon: 3, St, Pa, OD, Sc
Aminu: OD, Rb, ID, St
Davis: St, Le, Fe, OD, Md, %, ID, Rb, Bk
Lopez: Po, Rb, Po


Honestly, I think you could probably add Md to Vasquez and Lopez. He doesn't flash it often, but Lopez has a little range on the baseline. Also, you have to somehow credit Vasquez for his floaters, which I'd say are midrange.



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Posted by Jester on 4/18 at 1:58 pm to TigerinATL
quote:

I understand the Periodic Table, but I'm a bit confused about the Airport Map. Is there a set number to aim for? Would Anderson be included even though he isn't a starter?


It's not about a single number. The idea is to minimize the zeros and ones in the center Z. The center Z is basically the sum of individual Zs. The idea is to fill every need as best as possible.

I think this could also be useful in trying to determine defensive rotations against different offensive schemes.



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Posted by JohnZeroQ on 4/18 at 3:38 pm to corndeaux
This graph blew my mind.

Good stuff



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Posted by Jester on 5/29 at 2:36 pm to JohnZeroQ
Bump. I'd like to start profiling our current players, but it looks like a helluva task.


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Posted by Gtothemoney on 5/29 at 2:41 pm to Jester
If we're quizzed on this, looks like I'll be cheating off someone.

Looks like the periodic table or something. Sheesh.



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Posted by Jester on 5/29 at 3:16 pm to Gtothemoney
First Unit

Vasquez: 3, Pa, Le, Fe, Rb, Md, BH
Gordon: 3, St, Pa, OD, BH
Aminu: OD, Rb, ID, St
Davis: Bk, ID, Rb, Md, %, OD, St, Le, Fe
Lopez: Bk, ID, PO, Md

Bench:

Roberts: Pa, 3, Fe, BH
Rivers: St, BH, OD
Miller: 3, OD, Md,
Anderson: 3, Md, Po, Rb
Smith: ID, Rb, Md


One major skill that is missing is handles. I feel like it's a more pertinent stat than "potent scoring" which should be already indicated in 3, MDd, and Po.

What does everyone else think about replacing "Sc" with "BH"?

Steals is another redundant category



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Posted by Gtothemoney on 5/29 at 3:54 pm to Jester
OMG yes. Exactly what I was thinking.


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Posted by corndeaux on 5/29 at 9:14 pm to Jester
quote:

One major skill that is missing is handles. I feel like it's a more pertinent stat than "potent scoring" which should be already indicated in 3, MDd, and Po. 


I would add Caretaker- a guy that doesnt turn it over. And I would keep Potent Scorer. Youve got Lopez and Vasquez w/ 2 of 3 scoring picks each but neither one is a potent scorer. I interpret Potent Scorer as a high volume at least reasonable efficiency scorer- but thats just me.

edit- christ that sounded pompous.


This post was edited on 5/29 at 9:41 pm

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