Washington State AG files suit against florist who refused gay customers
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re: Washington State AG files suit against florist who refused gay customers
Posted by davesdawgs on 4/10 at 2:01 pm to LSUDVM1999
Obvious conflict between freedom of religion and civil rights bestowed by the state on homosexuals. This is where we are headed with a national same sex marriage amendment and I'm sure its coming one day. This is precisely why government needs to get out of the marriage business and leave it as a private institution. No one wins in this situation. The proprietor obviously doesn't want to discriminate against homosexuals, in fact he states just this, but he is taking a religious conviction stance against gay marriage which frankly I agree with.

This case should go before the Supreme Court and they should rule that government has no business related to marriage which is a largely religious institution; 80% of marriages are performed in a church or synagogue. This is not a civil rights issue because all civil rights associated with marriage can be satisfied through Civil Unions. Liberal progressives want separation of church and state; then government needs to get out of the marriage business.


“He said he decided to get married, and before he got through I grabbed his hand and said, ‘I am sorry. I can't do your wedding because of my relationship with Jesus Christ,’" Stutzman told KEPR. This is the only wedding Stutzman has turned down in 37 years.

As the Herald reports, Ingersoll said Stutzman's reaction "really hurt," noting, "There was never a question she'd be the one to do our flowers. She does amazing work."

The case mirrors that of an Oregon-based lesbian couple, who were turned away from a local bakery when they sought a wedding cake.

"I believe that marriage is a religious institution ordained by God," Aaron Klein, who owns Sweet Cakes Bakery with his wife Melissa, is quoted as saying. Specifying that he does not consider himself to be anti-gay -- "I'll sell [gay people] stuff...I'll talk to them, it's fine" -- Klein also noted, "I'd rather have my kids see their dad stand up for what he believes in than to see him bow down because one person complained."

Similarly, in November 2011, a lesbian couple was denied a wedding cake by the Christian owner of an Iowa-based bakery. "I didn't do the cake because of my convictions for their lifestyle," Victoria Childress, who runs her bakery from home, told KCCI-TV at the time. "It is my right, and it's not to discriminate against them. It's not so much to do with them, it's to do with me and my walk with God and what I will answer [to] Him for."



This post was edited on 4/10 at 2:05 pm

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Posted by N.O. via West-Cal on 4/10 at 2:54 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
"It should be 100% up to the owner if he/she doesn't want a certain person's money."

Really? What if the florist refuses to serve blacks?

What shocks me is the notion of an anti-gay florist. What's next? Not allowing gay men to attend Broadway musicals? I think that would be a mistake.



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Posted by JEAUXBLEAUX on 4/10 at 3:00 pm to N.O. via West-Cal
They need to do this if the florist violates anti discrimination laws. Not to equate with race or religion but as someobne pointed out if they refused interracial couples or certain religions? Prejudice is wrong and bad business.


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Posted by imjustafatkid on 4/10 at 3:36 pm to N.O. via West-Cal
quote:

What shocks me is the notion of an anti-gay florist. What's next? Not allowing gay men to attend Broadway musicals? I think that would be a mistake.


So you're saying the florist has no right to make a bad business decision?

I guess that's the rationale that kept GM alive.



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Posted by N.O. via West-Cal on 4/10 at 4:18 pm to imjustafatkid
"So you're saying the florist has no right to make a bad business decision?"

Just having a little fun there ...



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Posted by riverparish on 4/10 at 4:27 pm to Scruffy
quote:

It is situations like this that have convinced me to be against gay marriage out of pure spite


i feel the exact same way. i'm like that episode of seinfield when he tried to return a sports coat. "why are you returning this?" "spite"



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Posted by riverparish on 4/10 at 4:27 pm to Scruffy

dp


This post was edited on 4/10 at 5:04 pm

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Posted by CITWTT on 4/10 at 4:40 pm to JEAUXBLEAUX
You still live near Harlem so don't tell people how they should live Blow.


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Posted by Tigah in the ATL on 4/10 at 6:39 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:

eliminating liberty and free choice
only if you're in the group that doesn't see discrimination (hint - you're in it)



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Posted by Swampcat on 4/10 at 6:43 pm to Toddy
quote:

s she allowed to refuse service to black, Asian, disabled, or red headed customers ?


Yes



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Posted by Swampcat on 4/10 at 6:45 pm to davesdawgs
Can't wait for when the government forces homosexual history month down our throats. . Should be a hoot.


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Posted by davesdawgs on 4/10 at 6:48 pm to Tigah in the ATL
quote:

quote:
eliminating liberty and free choice

only if you're in the group that doesn't see discrimination (hint - you're in it)



Actually if the case holds up in court, there will be a huge group of religious people who will be subject to discrimination; a much larger group than that represented by homosexuals. I hope this case goes to the Supreme Court and they have the good sense to rule in favor of the store owner. Scalia should write the ruling essentially saying government has no business associated with the largely religious institution which is marriage.



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Posted by Swampcat on 4/10 at 6:49 pm to Swampcat
And transgender, bisexual, etc history month.....---


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Posted by RogerTheShrubber on 4/10 at 6:52 pm to JEAUXBLEAUX
quote:

Prejudice is wrong and bad business.


Maybe. Could be good business too, depends on the clientele. As a private business owner, you should be able to conduct your business as you see fit.

There are native businesses allowed to hire natives only, and have native only clientele. Is that ok?


This post was edited on 4/10 at 6:54 pm

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Posted by SlowFlowPro on 4/10 at 9:27 pm to Tigah in the ATL
quote:

only if you're in the group that doesn't see discrimination (hint - you're in it)

i see discrimination, i just feel people should be free to discriminate in their private lives

we all discriminate in all sorts of ways every single day. i hope you aren't denying that

i believe government should be free of discrimination, however



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Posted by LSU80 USF08 on 4/10 at 10:59 pm to davesdawgs
quote:

“He said he decided to get married, and before he got through I grabbed his hand and said, ‘I am sorry. I can't do your wedding because of my relationship with Jesus Christ,’" Stutzman told KEPR.


Her brain is infected with Magic Sky Fairie. This disease causes more stupid in this world than you could imagine.



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Posted by KosmoCramer on 4/10 at 11:18 pm to LSU80 USF08
I can see the issue with extending this law to churches(I don't think churches should be forced to perform homosexual marriages), but discriminating based on sexual orientation is blatant discrimination IMO.


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Posted by SammyTiger on 4/10 at 11:26 pm to LSUDVM1999
quote:

I hope this state's Consumer Protection Act gets trashed by the judge as I don't understand how the government can declare to private business who they can and can't do business with. If this stands, it sets a very dangerous precedent for any private business.

Before I'm called a homophobe, I could give 2 shits about gays getting married however I am against the strong arming of the government at any level to any private business. Even if this is tossed out, this business has to pay for the cost of legal defense against this suit, which is not cheap unless the attorney does it pro-bono.


Should businesses be allowed to refuse blacks?



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Posted by SlowFlowPro on 4/10 at 11:34 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:

but discriminating based on sexual orientation is blatant discrimination IMO.

i don't think anybody disagrees

like i said earlier, we discriminate based on all sorts of things in our daily lives. we just don't use teh "D" word as often

i think it's stupid to discriminate based on homosexuality, but i'm not religious

however, i always have to ask: what is next? 20 years ago very few people would have used the "D" word regarding homosexuality. progressives claim our evolution as a moral victory. fine. but what's the next group?

the problem with the bigger picture is the inability of progressives to claim victory and be done. they have to constantly find a new outlier group...then another...then another. by the very nature of their beliefs, there can't be an end game



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Posted by Sentrius on 4/10 at 11:38 pm to SammyTiger
quote:

Should businesses be allowed to refuse blacks?


Yes.

What's wrong with that?

That is freedom of the private sector and gov't should not be involved in such a thing.

FWIW, if a store did that, they would be seen as racist and not worthy of doing business with. Another store would then pop up and take all of the black customers the other store refused to serve. The original store suffers as a result of a stupid business decision. The market and private sector punishes a bad business decision and rewards a good one.



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