Daily Bitcoin Thread
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re: Daily Bitcoin Thread
Posted by BlackHelicopterPilot on 4/10 at 10:40 am to slackhouse
quote:

i'm talking about the government holding a large number of bitcoins and not doing anything with them. Just mining them and then not using them, not committing any transactions.

For Example: If the U.S. government holds 50% of all bitcoins mined and does nothing with them, how would it affect the bitcoin market? And, not just now, but 5 years from now.



Since BC is infinitely divisible, I'd assume that very little would happen until these Govs "flooded" the market with them.


For example:

If 1 million BC exist...but, only 500K ever get used. Them, products and services would be valued based upon the 'scarcity' of the availability.

So, the 500K would be divided into tiny pieces and whenever the other 500K hit the market, valuations would change (kinda like inflation). What I once got for .001 BC may take .1 BC now.


But, I am really behind on this. So, I could be barking mad



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Posted by WikiTiger on 4/10 at 10:42 am to BlackHelicopterPilot
quote:

Since BC is infinitely divisible, I'd assume that very little would happen until these Govs "flooded" the market with them.


For example:

If 1 million BC exist...but, only 500K ever get used. Them, products and services would be valued based upon the 'scarcity' of the availability.

So, the 500K would be divided into tiny pieces and whenever the other 500K hit the market, valuations would change (kinda like inflation). What I once got for .001 BC may take .1 BC now.


But, I am really behind on this. So, I could be barking mad


you are 100% right.

government hoarding a bunch of bitcoins would bring the price of all others up, and then if they released them on the market at once it would create a steep drop in the price of them all due to increased supply, and eventually a new price point would be found that took into account the new found supply.



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Posted by Waffle House on 4/10 at 10:48 am to WikiTiger
Wiki, if someone (organized governments) created a majority of the number of nodes mining, could they disrupt the validation of the bitchain?

Seems like you discussed something about majority control, either of coins or mining nodes but I can't recall. I know it is unlikely, but what would the result be?



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Posted by CptBengal on 4/10 at 10:49 am to WikiTiger
quote:

The price for all other bitcoins would go up.



then they sell all of their botcoins in a massive selloff...destroying the competing currency.

Wiki, do you really think that a group such as the Fed which has nearly unlimited resources, couldnt buy up a massive amount of bitcoins...driving the price bubble to an insane proportion...then pop it in one move?

i mean shit, they inflate bubbles in the real world currencies.



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Posted by WikiTiger on 4/10 at 10:51 am to Waffle House
quote:

Wiki, if someone (organized governments) created a majority of the number of nodes mining, could they disrupt the validation of the bitchain?

Seems like you discussed something about majority control, either of coins or mining nodes but I can't recall. I know it is unlikely, but what would the result be?


Yes. It's called a 51% attack. Here's what they could do:

LINK

quote:

Attacker has a lot of computing power

An attacker that controls more than 50% of the network's computing power can, for the time that he is in control, exclude and modify the ordering of transactions. This allows him to:

Reverse transactions that he sends while he's in control. This has the potential to double-spend transactions that previously had already been seen in the block chain.
Prevent some or all transactions from gaining any confirmations
Prevent some or all other miners from mining any valid blocks

The attacker can't:

Reverse other people's transactions
Prevent transactions from being sent at all (they'll show as 0/unconfirmed)
Change the number of coins generated per block
Create coins out of thin air
Send coins that never belonged to him

With less than 50%, the same kind of attacks are possible, but with less than 100% rate of success. For example, someone with only 40% of the network computing power can overcome a 6-deep confirmed transaction with a 50% success rate.

It's much more difficult to change historical blocks, and it becomes exponentially more difficult the further back you go. As above, changing historical blocks only allows you to exclude and change the ordering of transactions. It's impossible to change blocks created before the last checkpoint.

Since this attack doesn't permit all that much power over the network, it is expected that no one will attempt it. A profit-seeking person will always gain more by just following the rules, and even someone trying to destroy the system will probably find other attacks more attractive. However, if this attack is successfully executed, it will be difficult or impossible to "untangle" the mess created -- any changes the attacker makes might become permanent.



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Posted by Tech Support Grunt on 4/10 at 10:53 am to WikiTiger
Wiki, I was under the impression that in its current implementation bitcoin is limited to representing only eight decimal places which would make it finite. Is this not correct?


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Posted by LSURussian on 4/10 at 11:15 am to BlackHelicopterPilot
quote:

I have Tulips for sale

I liken the mass hysteria "collecting" bitcoins to the Beanie Baby craze of the 90's. The manufacturer promised a limited number of each version of those toys and would announce in advance when the last one of a version would be made.

It created an entire industry of collectors. The price of certain versions went well over $1,000.

I remember reading about a married couple who were putting almost all of their savings into Beanie Babies and they planned on hoarding them until they retired at which point they would start selling them. They actually considered Beanie Babies as part of their retirement planning!

Beanie Babies start with the letter "B" just like bitcoins. A coincidence? I DON'T THINK SO!!!



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Posted by WikiTiger on 4/10 at 11:16 am to Tech Support Grunt
quote:

Wiki, I was under the impression that in its current implementation bitcoin is limited to representing only eight decimal places which would make it finite. Is this not correct?


You are correct in that current bitcoin standards only recognize 8 decimal places. You are incorrect in assuming that means finite. Because if desired, bitcoin software can be modified to recognize more decimal places without changing the core protocol at all.



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Posted by el duderino III on 4/10 at 11:53 am to WikiTiger


Wiki: please respond to the last 2 minutes or so of that video. He stated some of the exact things I pointed out, and even called it a bubble 2 years ago - and he's one of the frickin developers

that just made my day



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Posted by el duderino III on 4/10 at 11:58 am to el duderino III
on a side note, do you think the guy that paid 20,000 btc for a pizza has killed himself yet? it better have been good, that pizza was 5 million bucks


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Posted by Poodlebrain on 4/10 at 3:27 pm to WikiTiger
51% of computing power would be difficult to assemble for any but the largest organizations. But wouldn't it be possible for an attacker to cause the total bitcoin network computing power to be reduced to a more attackable level by interrupting communications, thus making it easier for a 51% attack to succeed?


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Posted by Radiojones on 4/10 at 3:37 pm to LSURussian
quote:

Beanie Babies start with the letter "B" just like bitcoins. A coincidence? I DON'T THINK SO!!!


You left out the most important B's - Barack, Bill, Bush, Bilderberg



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Posted by WikiTiger on 4/10 at 3:53 pm to Poodlebrain
quote:

But wouldn't it be possible for an attacker to cause the total bitcoin network computing power to be reduced to a more attackable level by interrupting communications, thus making it easier for a 51% attack to succeed?


It would be possible to attack all the major mining pools, but what will likely happen in response to that is that individual miners would just move to other pools, or to decentralized mining pools (which already exist) without a single attack point.

The whole bitcoin ecosystem is going to move towards more and more decentralization in things like mining and in exchanges because that makes it much more difficult to perform any successful attacks.


This post was edited on 4/10 at 3:54 pm

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Posted by SlowFlowPro on 4/10 at 9:33 pm to CptBengal
quote:

Wiki, do you really think that a group such as the Fed which has nearly unlimited resources, couldnt buy up a massive amount of bitcoins...driving the price bubble to an insane proportion...then pop it in one move?

the problem is that a reset would hurt, short-term, but then the government would possibly lose its leverage

governments hate doing that



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