Why do progressives/liberals trust the gov't so much?
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re: Why do progressives/liberals trust the gov't so much?
Posted by WildTchoupitoulas on 4/10 at 12:04 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:

so we just dismiss the entire movement as it pertains to this discussion? that's kind of illogical

Are we generallizing about "progressives/liberals" or are we looking at all of their constituent fringe groups as well?
quote:

it was both

Right, just like it was both that passed the PA. Whatever fits your argument.
quote:

which side is having the discussion on removing government? the conservatives

Of course they are, they have to keep their base. But when have the ever really done anything about it besides just 'discussion'?

I remember in the 70's when you could go into any record store and see weed paraphrenalia. Then, suddenly, in 1980, it all disappeared. Then it re-appeared in 1992 - but then disappeared again in 2000. I alsways thought that was strange for a group that wanted less government intrusion in our lives - and just kind of highlights the hypocrisy of the right. At least the left doesn't hide the fact that they want big government.
quote:

there is a reason the tea party movement happened

And there is a reason they will be cruhed: re-election.



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Posted by SlowFlowPro on 4/10 at 12:10 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:

Are we generallizing about "progressives/liberals" or are we looking at all of their constituent fringe groups as well?

i talk about progressives, not DEMs. i'm only speaking about that group

quote:

just like it was both that passed the PA. Whatever fits your argument.

again, the TP was a reaction to the GOP. the PA is part of that

quote:

But when have the ever really done anything about it besides just 'discussion'?

the libertarians/TP is trying to do that. the neocon/RINO GOP members are blocking it

quote:


And there is a reason they will be cruhed: re-election.

again, irrelevant. they could have 0 support in any branch right now, and it's still a legit segment

the neocon/RINO GOP is terrible
the progressive DEMs are terrible

not many "rightists" on this board (with its strong libertarian slant) disagree with either of those statements

who is supporting the neocons/RINOs in this thread?



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Posted by SoulGlo on 4/10 at 12:14 pm to Tigah in the ATL
quote:

it's sex-baiting, class-baiting, AND race-baiting.


admitting it is the first step to recovery.



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Posted by WildTchoupitoulas on 4/10 at 12:19 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:

i talk about progressives, not DEMs. i'm only speaking about that group

Fair enough, it's hard to tell the difference on this board sometimes.
quote:

again, irrelevant. they could have 0 support in any branch right now, and it's still a legit segment

It's not irrelvant if their very philosophy disallows them from staying in office. It's like trying to grow a population of homosexuals - they tend not to reproduce. If TPers don't play the game, they will not stay in office and therefore they will not be a viable political force.

The rules of the game must change, but those who can change the rules don't want them changed.

Shout out to Joseph Heller...



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Posted by SlowFlowPro on 4/10 at 12:21 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:

It's not irrelvant if their very philosophy disallows them from staying in office

why? all that matters is elections? the ends justify the means? elections have consequences? etc

does that mean you just accept what RINO neocons do when they're in power? i mean, the other side is irrelevant b/c it couldn't maintain power. isn't that the logical conclusion of your argument here?




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Posted by WildTchoupitoulas on 4/10 at 12:41 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:

why? all that matters is elections?

Pretty much. You can't do shite sitting at home being consoled by your SO.

quote:

does that mean you just accept what RINO neocons do when they're in power?

I don't have much choice, I have to do the same when the liberals are in power as well. It sucks.
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i mean, the other side is irrelevant b/c it couldn't maintain power. isn't that the logical conclusion of your argument here?

Pretty much. How can you get anything done when you are a miniority of freshmen who will get voted out in the next cycle?

The problem is with the party structure itself. I remember the first time I realized that the party was not a part of the government. It seemed bizzare to me at the time, I mean look at the whole primary/election process, isn't that run by the government?

Not so much.

'Two' parties give us the illusion of choice at the polls. When it comes down to it, how did it get to be a choice of THOSE TWO individuals running?

320,000,000 people - pick two.




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Posted by SlowFlowPro on 4/10 at 12:42 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:

how did it get to be a choice of THOSE TWO individuals running?

mainly, SMDs

quote:

320,000,000 people - pick two.

well, again, there is a schism in the GOP currently. it's not really only a choice of 2 in many areas



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Posted by WildTchoupitoulas on 4/10 at 12:49 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:

well, again, there is a schism in the GOP currently. it's not really only a choice of 2 in many areas

But the GOP will put up ONE, and the Democrats will put up ONE, and we will all go to the polls pulling the lver - never really understanding how we got stuck choosing between these two miserable candidates.

It was a real hoot watching the republican primary last cycle. Every month was a new 'saviour' until eventually the guy with the least number of warts got his name next to the democrat. The funny part was watching all of the republicans gush about how great Romney was when just 6 months before most were slamming him.

I tell you, it's bizzare.

It's not the people, it's the system.



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Posted by SlowFlowPro on 4/10 at 12:54 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:

never really understanding how we got stuck choosing between these two miserable candidates.

single member districts

nature of the beast

quote:

It's not the people, it's the system.

our only other option is a proportional system when people vote for parties, not people

you get more parties, but none have as much power, and coalitions are usually slaves to extreme minority parties with single agendas



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Posted by N.O. via West-Cal on 4/10 at 1:59 pm to SlowFlowPro
"which side is having the discussion on removing government? the conservatives"

GWB has been accurately described, often derisively, as a "big government conservative," but as this posters so accurately points up, the only party discussing the scope of government is the GOP. I think this is important.



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Posted by N.O. via West-Cal on 4/10 at 2:03 pm to SlowFlowPro
"our only other option is a proportional system when people vote for parties, not people"

I will take our admittedly imperfect system every day of the week and twice on Sunday over a proportional representation system.



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Posted by WildTchoupitoulas on 4/10 at 2:47 pm to N.O. via West-Cal
quote:

GWB has been accurately described, often derisively, as a "big government conservative," but as this posters so accurately points up, the only party discussing the scope of government is the GOP.

In 40 years of discussing it, I haven't actually seen them DO anything about it.
quote:

I think this is important.

I'm thinking, not so much.

All talk does is fool people into voting for them.

Remember this conservative tag line of candidate Bush...?

"a humble foreign policy with no nation building"

Yeah, we saw how that turned out.



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Posted by Tchefuncte Tiger on 4/10 at 3:06 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:

Throw in the Patriot Act and all of you who are blasting "progressives" for wanting a strong government just come off looking like hypocrits.


You're confusing "republicans" with "conservatives." Most true conservatives I know were, and are, fiercely against the Patriot Act.



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Posted by WildTchoupitoulas on 4/10 at 3:22 pm to Tchefuncte Tiger
quote:

You're confusing "republicans" with "conservatives."

Yeah, that happens when all the conservatives jump on Reagan's knob. It kind of clouds the issue for you. That's why we called ourselves Libertarian and not conservative or republican.
quote:

Most true conservatives I know were, and are, fiercely against the Patriot Act.

How nice for you. Most conservatives I know were for it before they were against it - just like the were with W - just like they were with the War on Drugs.



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Posted by SoulGlo on 4/10 at 4:13 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:

"a humble foreign policy with no nation building"


along with "compassionate conservatism"

What a fricking douche.



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