How badly will Jindal's Plan Hurt LSU?
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re: How badly will Jindal's Plan Hurt LSU?
Posted by KrushGroove on 3/17 at 3:40 pm to los angeles tiger
quote:

It won't because if it did then academia couldn't protests about their "hardships" of cuts that hurt the "poor" students.


but that's not the trend in other fields where colleges have subcontracted out support services to private enterprise or vendors.

It's been happening in the healthcare provided at universities, personnel management, food services, bookstores, and other.

And I don't think it's always worked out best for education generally, but it has saved money.





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Posted by KrushGroove on 3/17 at 3:46 pm to I B Freeman
quote:

I gave the book store question as example of spending falling under the scrutiny of politicians now and you want to challenge that such questions should even be asked. Your first inclination is always that government is right.


Nonsense.

I've said before, more than once, that I don't trust government enough to invest all decision-making to them.

I don't think government is always right. I don't think it's even often right. It's why I've never voted major party in a national election.

What I'm fascinated by is your level of anger with something you don't know anything about. And not just about this topic.

Your angry about the cost but have no idea how much it cost. Or how much it will make. Or how much private, for-profit enterprise drove the decision.

I don't know that I've ever seen someone get so worked up over things they know nothing about.

quote:

I would not ask why LSU built a new book store when the use of books is going down


just as one example. College courses typically use textbooks and the students still buy them. But B&N also sells through it's nook e-reader. And they have apparel. The bookstore gets pretty crowded on game days, for example. They'll have a restaurant. They'll be selling ipads and other non-book items suited for the digital age.

quote:

Do you have the facts?


No. Which is why I'm not defending the bookstore.

What I don't get is that you're full bore criticizing when you don't have them either.

I have to have them, but you don't?

Bizarre



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Posted by I B Freeman on 3/17 at 3:53 pm to KrushGroove
quote:

No. Which is why I'm not defending the bookstore.

What I don't get is that you're full bore criticizing when you don't have them either.

I have to have them, but you don't?

Bizarre


Go back and read it. It was a question. I don't know the facts at all. I know it was new construction and I know they are begging for money. IT IS RIGHT TO QUESTION IT so long as it is a public institution. You went straight to defending the government again on a spending project and never even addressed the point of the post.

That point being if these schools were private the money would not be a public issue. The schools would be free to operate completely as they see fit and the SUNOs of the world that have been thus far politically impossible to close would die from lack of funding. The areas of the state with redundant educational overhead and academic offerings (ie Grambling, ULM and La Tech act) would correct themselves. LSU could build 100 bookstores if they are so profitable.


This post was edited on 3/17 at 3:56 pm

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Posted by I B Freeman on 3/17 at 3:58 pm to KrushGroove
quote:

but that's not the trend in other fields where colleges have subcontracted out support services to private enterprise or vendors.


Link?

quote:

It's been happening in the healthcare provided at universities, personnel management, food services, bookstores, and other.


Link?

quote:

but it has saved money.


Link?

Curious you should demand so much from other posters and make such a post with no back up.



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Posted by KrushGroove on 3/17 at 3:58 pm to I B Freeman
quote:

went straight to defending the government again


wrong

and now you're telling me that this wasn't meant to be critical:
quote:


did LSU really need to spend a pile of money building a new bookstore???


you were just asking a question?

Right.

Privatize everything is your answer.

Well, they are privatizing bookselling and other aspects of the school and that's not enough for you.

You're a dedicated neo-liberal. I'll give you that.



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Posted by I B Freeman on 3/17 at 4:02 pm to KrushGroove
quote:

Politically we will never reduce the over investment we have in schools (did LSU really need to spend a pile of money building a new bookstore???). The only way to bring the investment down is through competition. Let em go private and let them charge whatever they want in tuition and I bet we would graduate more students with less tax payer money involved.


Does anyone besides the anal defender of government spending, government schools and things government think the above paragraph is about the wisdom of building a bookstore?



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Posted by onmymedicalgrind on 3/17 at 4:06 pm to Srbtiger06
quote:

Because they were staying in-state to begin with?


It was more likely.



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Posted by KrushGroove on 3/17 at 4:08 pm to I B Freeman
quote:

Link?


just spend a few minutes reading up on university administration and spending articles and it outlines why these services are being outsourced and the degree to which it has been happening the last 30 years or so

LINK

LINK

LINK

just google "privatize university services" for more



This post was edited on 3/17 at 4:13 pm

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Posted by I B Freeman on 3/17 at 4:13 pm to KrushGroove
quote:

just spend a few minutes reading up on university administration and spending articles and it outlines why these services are being outsourced and the degree to which it has been happening the last 30 years or so

LINK

LINK

LINK

just google "privatize university services" for more


Good keep that up from now on if you want it in my post.

What about the other two?



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Posted by KrushGroove on 3/17 at 4:19 pm to I B Freeman
quote:

What about the other two?


Answers to all of them are included. In those links and a simple google search will demonstrate all the points I raised:

1. Contracting out to private firms has typically not led to increases for those services (which was the purpose in the first place - they aren't popular educationally but improve the bottom line, so they get approved). The initial point was that "academia" would gripe about how much it would cost the students. And that's not the case.

2. That it's been happening in many aspects of higher education. One of the first links in google describes Texas A&M's and UK's consideration of moving food services over to private firms. It's happened with parking. Security. And many other areas. It's all in the links, more services than I've listed here.

3. And, finally, that it has saved the university money. In many cases, you'll see that the savings has been quite considerable.

The discussion is to what extent these savings do or don't balance out the potential risks.

But all three points are factual. And examples of all can be found on those links and recommended search.



This post was edited on 3/17 at 4:20 pm

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Posted by los angeles tiger on 3/17 at 4:35 pm to I B Freeman
IB, did you ever see the Stossel report regarding the bull shite in higher ed? Great episode that highlights how much waste and nonsense takes place in academia at taxpayers expense. BTW, let's cut Title IX and let's stop calling the athletic departments "non-profits."


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Posted by I B Freeman on 3/17 at 4:41 pm to los angeles tiger
quote:

IB, did you ever see the Stossel report regarding the bull shite in higher ed? Great episode that highlights how much waste and nonsense takes place in academia at taxpayers expense. BTW, let's cut Title IX and let's stop calling the athletic departments "non-profits."


I didn't see it but I would like too. You are correct about title 9 and the athletic departments.

I read this just yesterday that is sort of along similar lines. I am posting it in full as it requires a subscription to the WSJ to read.

Law Schools and Other Shameless Schemes
JOE QUEENAN Wall Street Journal 3/15/2013

quote:

In the world-famous Nigerian Scam, a person is contacted via letter or email by a mysterious West African stranger outlining a secret path to untold riches. The stranger knows of a huge sum of cash or gold being hoarded in a vault somewhere, but to gain access to it, a bribe must go to a high-ranking official.

To reap a 30% share of the treasure, the "mark" is asked to deposit, say, $10,000 in the scammer's bank account to cover the bribe. The scammer assures the mark that things are proceeding as planned and asks for more money. When the mark finally runs out of cash or realizes the pot of gold does not exist, the scammer moves on to the next dupe. The con job, though idiotic and obvious, often succeeds.

Entire websites are devoted to warning the public about the Nigerian Scam. But how is this fraud, also known as the Nigerian 419 Scam (after the section of Nigerian law that covers the crime), any different from the Law School 419 Scam?

This scheme promises its gullible victims immense wealth and a brilliant future. It promises jobs that don't exist and careers that will never materialize. It offers degrees that are useless outside the state in which they were issued, and not much use inside. At the end of the line, the mark, often hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, is left penniless.

The mechanics of the Law School 419 Scam are very similar to those of the legendary Nigerian con job. First, the pigeon is asked to pony up a substantial amount of money to attend his first year in law school, despite the fact that law schools are cutting enrollment and some institutions are so embarrassed by the whole thing that they're setting up their own law firms to hire graduates. The powers-that-be assure the sucker that it's OK if he doesn't have the upfront money; the school knows people who will lend it to him. The vig is modest.

By the end of his first year, the mark has read a few articles warning that the legal industry is imploding. He's read that even graduates from Ivy League law schools are having a hard time landing jobs. He starts to wonder if he will ever see the big payoff he has been promised.

The scammer reassures him, telling him that to keep things percolating, he need only deposit an additional chunk of money in the scammer's account to pay for the second and the third year of school. At the same time, the mark is subjected to the Law School 419 Overpriced Law Book Scam.

At the end of the experience, the bamboozled sucker usually goes to work in retail.

People get really upset about the Nigerian Scam, but in their defense the Nigerians only ask for a few thousand dollars. Law schools ask for hundreds of thousands. And the Nigerian Scam does at least have a certain entertainment value: It makes the victim feel like he's been cast in a remake of the beguiling David Mamet/Steve Martin film "The Spanish Prisoner." Law schools provide no drama and no amusement. It's a straight rip-off.

These are by no means the only egregious scams that routinely impoverish the unknowing rube. There is also the Master's Degree in Gender Studies Scam, the Music Conservatory Scam, the Film School Scam and the Pas de Deux 419 Scam. Send us $150,000 and we can guarantee you a position in an orchestra somewhere. Or a career in Hollywood. Or a job as a ballerina.

We take checks, cash and money orders.

Other scams that have gone woefully unreported are the Cruise Ship Scam (send us a ton of money and we promise, promise that you won't end up tilted at a funny angle on a capsized ship off the coast of Cairo in December), the Any Movie Starring Colin Farrell Scam, the Managed Fund Scam, the Private School Scam (send us a hundred grand and we'll get that doofus into Yale no matter what) and the 30 Days to a Slimmer You Scam.

Perhaps the worst offender of all is The Political Action Committee 419 Scam. Send us thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars and we promise to get your capital-gains taxes lowered. Or at least get that scoundrel thrown out of office. Uh-oh; better send another check ASAP. Looks like we're going to need a bigger bribe.



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Posted by Keltic Tiger on 3/17 at 5:50 pm to I B Freeman
Privatizing State universities seems to be your pie in the sky answer every time the issue of the State's budget woes comes up. Be real: do you think that the politicians in this state will ever close a university, be it La. Tech, Grambling, SUNO, McNeese, UNO, etc? So quit proposing privatization/closing of universities as your answer. It will never happen. I'm not saying your theory is right or wrong. But I am saying you need to come up with a real, practical solution. And I trust Jindal's budget proposals about as far as I could throw him out the State.


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Posted by I B Freeman on 3/17 at 6:06 pm to Keltic Tiger
quote:

Privatizing State universities seems to be your pie in the sky answer every time the issue of the State's budget woes comes up. Be real: do you think that the politicians in this state will ever close a university, be it La. Tech, Grambling, SUNO, McNeese, UNO, etc?


I don't think now it is politically possible to close them so I prefer they go private and compete for a very well financed pool of potential customers.

I am being real BTW.

In South Carolina then Governor Mark Sanford gave the University of South Carolina the option of going private or taking severe cuts in their budget and remaining a state university. They took the option to remain public with a huge cut in their subsidy. They also got autonomy in raising their tuition and did and have as many or more students than ever before and rank much higher in many areas than LSU. I betcha if they had the option of going completely private and their customers being subsidized they would have taken that.

quote:


So quit proposing privatization/closing of universities as your answer. It will never happen. I'm not saying your theory is right or wrong. But I am saying you need to come up with a real, practical solution. And I trust Jindal's budget proposals about as far as I could throw him out the State


Soon the state universities-say 20 years--will have such a hard time competing with online degrees tax payers will be wondering why we have not closed several of them. Do it now orderly or do latter abruptly.



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Posted by onmymedicalgrind on 3/17 at 6:08 pm to I B Freeman
quote:

will have such a hard time competing with online degrees


Not this again



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Posted by I B Freeman on 3/17 at 6:13 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:

quote:
will have such a hard time competing with online degrees


Not this again


I don't understand how anyone who has witnessed the change in how information is exchanged over the last 30 years can deny that higher education will more and more be online based.

Online education certainly got a big publicity boost when Johnny Football announced all of his classes this semester are online at Texas A&M. LINK


This post was edited on 3/17 at 6:14 pm

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Posted by onmymedicalgrind on 3/17 at 6:19 pm to I B Freeman
quote:

Online education certainly got a big publicity boost when Johnny Football announced all of his classes this semester are online at Texas A&M.


JFF?!? Oh my, I guess that settles it then!



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Posted by I B Freeman on 3/17 at 6:30 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:

quote:
Online education certainly got a big publicity boost when Johnny Football announced all of his classes this semester are online at Texas A&M.


JFF?!? Oh my, I guess that settles it then!


Let's see who gets more press Heisman trophy winner Manziel and his online classes or shortsighted onmymedicalgrind posts on tiger droppings about education never going online?

I can hear a 1000 18 year old girls in small towns all over telling their boyfriends how they can stay home and get educated instead going off to that big ole school--or vice versa of course. Parents encouraging kids to stay home instead of paying for living in another city ect. Why is it so hard for you to see the economic advantages of online classes?


This post was edited on 3/17 at 6:31 pm

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Posted by onmymedicalgrind on 3/17 at 6:44 pm to I B Freeman
quote:

Why is it so hard for you to see the economic advantages of online classes?


Short-term? Of course online classes have economic advantages, I've never denied that. Good luck competing for jobs against people who have degrees from accredited, well-respected, prestigious institutions, though.



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Posted by I B Freeman on 3/17 at 7:02 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:

Good luck competing for jobs against people who have degrees from accredited, well-respected, prestigious institutions, though.



Would not surprise me at all if large employers operated online schools and REQUIRED employees to complete degrees or something similar enrolled in their schools.

You can dream up all kinds of scenarios you think will stop online education but you are simply in denial.

I bet you half the degrees awarded today at LSU could be taught online with only a minimum of campus time involved.



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