" I don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect me"
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re: " I don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect me"
Posted by Tom288 on 3/20 at 3:36 am to CollegeFBRules
Always.


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Posted by Antonio Moss on 3/20 at 6:03 am to DawgfaninCa
quote:

quote:

That passage refers to a GROUP OF PEOPLE having the right to separate themselves and form their own country.



To separate themselves in order to assume the "laws of nature and of nature's God"

In other words, people have a right to secede from tyranny in order protect their natural rights. And the Jefferson goes on to describe natural rights in the second paragraph.



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Posted by Tom288 on 3/20 at 6:16 am to Antonio Moss
quote:

Antonio Moss



Why are you wasting your time with someone who signs off with after every illogical and/or retarded post?



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Posted by Antonio Moss on 3/20 at 7:40 am to Tom288
quote:

Why are you wasting your time with someone who signs off with after every illogical and/or retarded post?


I know. It's a personal flaw.

I just hate this country's vast ignorance of the founding documents.



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Posted by CITWTT on 3/20 at 8:12 am to Revelator
John Dunne has an interesting qoute in his works that goes to the heart of the everyday world. "No man is an island" belies the notion that a law/edict from a government that affects one person effects the whole of a culture. Boenhoffers qoute about raising his voice to late into the game of genocide to do any good is another way of expressing the folly of not objecting to the wrongdoings of a countries leaders.


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Posted by DawgfaninCa on 3/20 at 11:05 am to SidewalkDawg
quote:


Your attempts to pass opinion as fact tells me that you are either disingenuous, or worse, a complete idiot. Good day sir.


It's not just my opinion. It's common sense which is something that you obviously don't have.




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Posted by DawgfaninCa on 3/20 at 11:27 am to Blue Velvet
quote:

Most heterosexual men won't marry a woman they don't "love" just to get tax breaks because then they won't be able to marry the woman they fall in "love" with when they meet her.


quote:

Unlike homosexual couples?


A major reason most heterosexual men desire to get married is to have children with the woman they "love" not to get tax breaks.
Homosexuals don't have that desire when looking for a mate so they will be more willing to marry someone they "love" to get tax breaks not to have children.





quote:

Nope, for heterosexual men, having to do all that ain't worth the tax breaks.


quote:

But it is for homosexuals?




Yup. Since homosexual "love" can't result in the creation of a new life, homosexuals will marry each other just to get the tax breaks.

After all, they can always visit a local homosexual sex club whenever they want to find "love".






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Posted by Revelator on 3/20 at 11:44 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:

This faulty logic. Natural rights are rights you are born with, whether you believe you were created by a devine power or the result of natural evolution, you are born free, only the contraints of man can deny you those rights.




Natural rights would be those observed in nature which is survival of the fittest. So if that's what kind of society you want, then you'd be fine with natural rights. But on the other hand, if you want rights that are equal, consistent, impartial, rights that make room for the weak, deprived or less fortunate, you would want those entrusted to you by a benevolent God.



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Posted by Revelator on 3/20 at 11:45 am to Tom288
quote:

Actually, a person's moral maturity ripens in spite of organized religion, not because of it.



So all people consistently get more moral as they age?



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Posted by DawgfaninCa on 3/20 at 11:49 am to Tom288
quote:


You didn't fix shit, so keep your stupid emoticon garbage out of your pathetic posts.



quote:

A single proposition in California encompasses the common standards of the entire society? And you may want to reconsider whose argument that example actually supports.



So you don't believe that the people in a State have the right to set their own moral standards?

quote:

Actually it says nothing relating to the question, so feel free to expound.


Read my signature over and over and eventually you may understand it.

quote:

True objective morality would state that killing another person is always wrong, but that's not the case, is it? There is no leeway when it comes to objective codes or values.


True objective takes into account the circumstances surrounding the reason why someone had to kill someone.

That's why it isn't murder when someone kills another person in self defense.

quote:

Some serious moral questions have been answered a long time ago and don't need to be revisited without restriction or limitation.


quote:

Such as?


Such as murdering someone just because you want to experience what it feels like to murder someone.

quote:

Which archaic, arbitrary system are you talking about?


quote:

Christianity...the Bible...considering I was responding to Revelator that should have been pretty obvious.


The fact that you are anti religion and lack common sense are the only obvious things that can be deduced from what you post.


quote:

And just so you know, your emoticons make you look like an ass. And that's before we even get to the substance of your posts.


I'm estatic to know that you think my emotions make me look like you.


:pimp:



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Posted by DawgfaninCa on 3/20 at 12:00 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:


In other words, people have a right to secede from tyranny in order protect their natural rights. And the Jefferson goes on to describe natural rights in the second paragraph.


The word "people" is the plural for "person".

It refers to a group right not an individual right.

An individual doesn't have the right to form their own country.

The first paragraph of the DOI has nothing to do with an individual's "natural" rights.




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Posted by DawgfaninCa on 3/20 at 12:02 pm to Tom288
quote:


Why are you wasting your time with someone who signs off with after every illogical and/or retarded post?


Why do you feel the need to insult someone who disagrees with your sophistic nonsense?




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Posted by DawgfaninCa on 3/20 at 12:03 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:


I just hate this country's vast ignorance of the founding documents.


Then you must hate yourself.





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Posted by DawgfaninCa on 3/20 at 12:18 pm to CITWTT
quote:

John Dunne has an interesting qoute in his works that goes to the heart of the everyday world. "No man is an island" belies the notion that a law/edict from a government that affects one person effects the whole of a culture. Boenhoffers qoute about raising his voice to late into the game of genocide to do any good is another way of expressing the folly of not objecting to the wrongdoings of a countries leaders.


I was taught that the proverb, " No man is an island" means no person can survive without the help of the rest of mankind.




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Posted by Antonio Moss on 3/20 at 12:47 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:

The word "people" is the plural for "person".


Yes

quote:

It refers to a group right not an individual right.


Nonsense. A collective of individual rights is a "group right."

quote:

An individual doesn't have the right to form their own country.


Yet a group of individuals sharing this (and other) rights can.

quote:

The first paragraph of the DOI has nothing to do with an individual's "natural" rights.


Wrong. The first of the four natural rights described by Jefferson in the DOI comes in the first paragraph - the right to reform or remove government that does not secure natural rights.

quote:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.



The bolded portion is the second clause of a two part process: 1) Dissolve the political bands, i.e. secede from current government AND 2) assume from the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's god entitle them, i.e. to create among themselves a new government which respects the natural rights they are due.

The other three - the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness - are described in the second paragraph. Jefferson's description was influenced by John Locke in Locke's description of natural rights in his Second Treatise of Government (Locke also describes the natural right of property in this treatise.)

Obviously, you don't care about any of the this, but I hope others reading this thread learn a little bit.



This post was edited on 3/20 at 12:49 pm

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Posted by DawgfaninCa on 3/20 at 1:14 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:

It refers to a group right not an individual right.


quote:

Nonsense. A collective of individual rights is a "group right."


Where does it say an individual has the right to form their own country?

I'll answer my own question to save you the time.

It doesn't. It says a group of people have the right to separate and form their own country.

A "group right" isn't an "individual" right.

Nice try though.

quote:

Yet a group of individuals sharing this (and other) rights can.


An individual doesn't have the right to form their own country and it is obvious why an individual doesn't have that right.


quote:

Wrong. The first of the four natural rights described by Jefferson in the DOI comes in the first paragraph - the right to reform or remove government that does not secure natural rights.


An individual does not have that right because it is impossible for an individual to separate and form their own government.

However, a group of people with the same grievances has the right to separate and form their own country.


quote:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.


quote:

The bolded portion is the second clause of a two part process: 1) Dissolve the political bands, i.e. secede from current government AND 2) assume from the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's god entitle them, i.e. to create among themselves a new government which respects the natural rights they are due.


quote:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.


The portion I put in bold lettering means a group of people have that right not an individual.


quote:

The other three - the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness - are described in the second paragraph. Jefferson's description was influenced by John Locke in Locke's description of natural rights in his Second Treatise of Government (Locke also describes the natural right of property in this treatise.)


The other three are unalienable rights granted to us by our creator.

There is no such thing as natural rights.

There are only rights grant to us by our creator or rights granted to us by man.





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Posted by Antonio Moss on 3/20 at 1:23 pm to DawgfaninCa
Like I said, you'd prefer to wallow in ignorance than learn. No big deal to me. Hopefully, someone following this thread learned something.


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Posted by DawgfaninCa on 3/20 at 1:44 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:

Like I said, you'd prefer to wallow in ignorance than learn. No big deal to me. Hopefully, someone following this thread learned something.


Apparently, you prefer to wallow in your ignorance rather than to learn the difference between the rights granted to an individual and the rights granted to a group of individuals.




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