Pro-Gun Advocates Have More In Common With Hitler Than They Think
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Pro-Gun Advocates Have More In Common With Hitler Than They Think
Posted by Burt Reynolds on 1/13 at 8:55 am
This article was written in response to the drudge report headline a few days back which associated hitler and stalin with executive orders on guns.
quote:

A popular argument for gun control opponents since the issue flared to fever pitch in the wake of the Sandy Hook massacre has been that Nazi leader Adolf Hitler outlawed guns, and that any attempt by Congress/ President Barack Obama to do the same is akin to the dictator’s World War II policy. This argument has become so central to many pro-gun arguments that the Google search term itself has seen tremendous search volume. As the Washington Examiner points out, web user interest in the history of Hitler and gun control has spiked since Democrats began demanding more restrictions on high capacity magazines and semi-automatic weapons, most notably the resurrected assault weapons ban crafted by Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.)In December the keywords “Hitler gun control” spiked to a 100 rating … the rating given to Google’s peak search volume, as the Washington Examiner notes.

The wild combination of “Hitler” and all things “Gun Control” (“Obama,” “Feinstein,” “Democrats” fall into this latter category) came to a head when the conservative Drudge Report website posted this image in response to Vice President Joe Biden — who is leading the president’s gun control panel — announcing that the administration was considering executive orders on the matter … cutting out Congress on the issue:.

quote:

But is this a sound argument in the gun control debate? Can all things gun control really be considered Nazi-esque and inline with Hitler’s views? No — the argument makes no sense. Hitler did have a gun control policy (and one that read almost like the Feinstein bill does today), but that policy was an extension of post-World War I gun control measures set on Germany by the Allies to keep Germany from militarizing itself. In 1919, the German government passed the Regulations on Weapons Ownership, which declared that "all firearms, as well as all kinds of firearms ammunition, are to be surrendered immediately.” The regulation was in response to the Treaty of Versailles, and the German Weimar government passed the legislation (not the Nazis). Article 169 of the Treaty of Versailles stated, "Within two months from the coming into force of the present Treaty, German arms, munitions, and war material, including anti-aircraft material, existing in Germany in excess of the quantities allowed, must be surrendered to the Governments of the Principal Allied and Associated Powers to be destroyed or rendered useless." This regulation sounds like any American pro-gun advocate’s worst nightmare — the surrender of all firearms and ammo! Wowza. In the current gun debate, the closest thing that comes to this gun control policy is an Iowa lawmaker who is calling for gun confiscation. The proposed Feinstein assault weapons ban itself doesn’t call for confiscation, and would in fact allow owners of any banned guns to keep their weapons when/ if the bill goes into effect. A Connecticut lawmaker is calling for background checks to buy ammo, but this is in no way in the “confiscation” vein. Keep in mind now that we’re not even talking about Hitler yet: The 1919 measure was passed immediately after Germany lost World War I and well before Hitler came to power in 1933. Hitler, then, came into power when this regulation was in effect … so, yes, Hitler, by default, did have a gun control policy — but only because it was forced on Germany. Remember how the Hitler Youth were trained to march not with rifles but with shovels? This was a result of the Treaty of Versailles, not a Hitler policy.

quote:

Hitler did have his own gun control policy, an extension of the 1919 regulation. Funny enough, it sounds a lot like the boiler plate gun control legislation that is on the books across the United States — and, even funnier enough, the Hitler gun control policy sounds like something any American would generally support … but even more so is what pro-gun advocates are pushing for: deregulation. That’s right: Hitler and pro-gun advocates want the same thing. The 1938 German Weapons Act, the precursor of the current weapons law in Germany, superseded a 1928 law. As under the 1928 law, citizens were required to have a permit to carry a firearm and a separate permit to acquire a firearm. Furthermore, the law restricted ownership of firearms to "...persons whose trustworthiness is not in question and who can show a need for a (gun) permit." Under the new law, gun restriction laws applied only to handguns, not to long guns or ammunition. Writes Prof. Bernard Harcourt of the University of Chicago, "The 1938 revisions completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, as well as ammunition.” The groups of people who were exempt from the acquisition permit requirement expanded. Holders of annual hunting permits, government workers, and NSDAP party members were no longer subject to gun ownership restrictions. Prior to the 1938 law, only officials of the central government, the states, and employees of the German Reichsbahn Railways were exempted. The age at which persons could own guns was lowered from 20 to 18. The firearms carry permit was valid for three years instead of one year. Under both the 1928 and 1938 acts, gun manufacturers and dealers were required to maintain records with information about who purchased guns and the guns' serial numbers. These records were to be delivered to a police authority for inspection at the end of each year. Of course, in typical Hitler style, Jews were forbidden from the manufacturing or dealing of firearms and ammunition. In 1945, after the Nazis surrendered, Allied forces commanding Germany completely disarmed the country. Private ownership of firearms in Germany was not allowed until after 1956. Modern Germany has comparatively stricter gun laws than the U.S., laws that were the result of a chain of school shootings in Erfurt, Emsdetten and Winnenden. They led to a public debate, in which blame was attributed to various elements of youth culture and society, including violent computer games, television programs, rock music, and private gun ownership (sounds familiar). So, are pro-gun proponents in the United States right to compare gun control efforts to Hitler? No. The reality is that their views more align with Hitler policies (except that anti-Jewish part!) of de-regulation. This of course, isn't to say, that Americans are in anyway like Nazis, only to add some flesh to the conversation sparked by Drudge Report and other pro-gun proponents.

LINK


This post was edited on 1/13 at 8:59 am

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Posted by thetempleowl on 1/13 at 9:11 am to Burt Reynolds
quote:

Modern Germany has comparatively stricter gun laws than the U.S., laws that were the result of a chain of school shootings in Erfurt, Emsdetten and Winnenden. They led to a public debate, in which blame was attributed to various elements of youth culture and society, including violent computer games, television programs, rock music, and private gun ownership (sounds familiar).


So because Germany says something, that makes it correct?

And as far as the rest of that says, Germany lacks something that america has.

It is known as the second amendment.

If you want to change it, the constitution does allow itself to be amended.

As far as people calling one side or the other nazis, well that sort of ridiculousness happens on both sides of any debate.



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Posted by KosmoCramer on 1/13 at 9:13 am to Burt Reynolds
quote:

Furthermore, the law restricted ownership of firearms to "...persons whose trustworthiness is not in question and who can show a need for a (gun) permit." 


Read as: Nazi sympathizer


They wanted to get more guns into German sphere influence, I highly doubt they were allowing anyone that wasn't a felon (German equivalent) from obtaining guns.

This change in law was meant to bolster the Nazi Parties munitions supply.


ETA: you really think Hitler was advocating Jews obtaining guns?

U dum.


This post was edited on 1/13 at 9:15 am

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Posted by Burt Reynolds on 1/13 at 9:17 am to KosmoCramer
quote:

you really think Hitler was advocating Jews obtaining guns?

U dum.


quote:

So, are pro-gun proponents in the United States right to compare gun control efforts to Hitler? No. The reality is that their views more align with Hitler policies (except that anti-Jewish part!) of de-regulation.




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Posted by Alahunter on 1/13 at 9:17 am to Burt Reynolds
The opposite is true though. The left are the ones wanting to curb a Constitutional Right. They are the ones, murdering children, they are the ones who are into thought crimes, they are the ones who wish to silence those who oppose their viewpoints, they are the ones who give complete obedience to the government.


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Posted by MStant1 on 1/13 at 9:19 am to Burt Reynolds
The following comments in response to the article sufficiently poke holes in the author's thesis that I feel no need to think of my own counters:

quote:

"Very interesting article. However there are a few weak spots in your argument. First you make a case for anti-gun regulation people being like Hitler, but a bad case for gun regulation. As you stated the strict gun-regulation laws were part of the Treaty of Versailles that crippled the country economically, and took their guns. Most scholars recognize it as being what led to Hitler's rise to power. So regardless of where Hitler stood on gun-regulation, gun-regulation is part of what allowed him to rise to power, which is a powerful argument against it.
Next, the government choosing who does and doesn't get guns is what "pro-gun" people fear/don't like, which sounds exactly like what Hitler did (party members-yes, Jews-no)."


quote:

quote:

". "Of course, in typical Hitler style, Jews were forbidden from the manufacturing or dealing of firearms and ammunition."


That statement makes all the difference in the world. And their inability to defend themselves made them easy targets. Modern pro gun people want owning firearms open to all persons. Your analogy and conclusion of pro gun groups is totally inaccurate based on your own article..

I might add that gypsies, and other minorities were also not allowed to have firearms. And also possession of firearms by any other group but Nazi party members and their police was evidence of conspiracy. Gun Control was a major component of Nazi control and the Holocaust . "




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Posted by MDcajuntiger on 1/13 at 9:20 am to Burt Reynolds


:insert not sure if serious:

quote:

As far as people calling one side or the other nazis, well that sort of ridiculousness happens on both sides of any debate.


Hard to have a grown up discussion when either side starts tossing stuff like this around.

PS - Do you need a vasectomy? I guess I am sort of a fan of eugenics...



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Posted by ShortyRob on 1/13 at 9:23 am to MStant1
quote:

MStant1
This dude is blindingly fricking stupid or a spectacular troll.



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Posted by weagle99 on 1/13 at 9:24 am to ShortyRob
Burt - didn't read.


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Posted by MStant1 on 1/13 at 9:25 am to ShortyRob
Me or the author?


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Posted by KosmoCramer on 1/13 at 9:27 am to Burt Reynolds
I don't get what you're trying to prove.

Hitler wanted people that aligned with his beliefs to have guns. He restricted people that weren't Nazi sympathizers to not have them.

That's exactly the opposite of what gun advocates want.

The 2nd amendment doesn't discriminate bawd on political party, religious affiliation, or anything else.

I'm really confused the point your trying to make. The article is self contradictory.



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Posted by CITWTT on 1/13 at 9:31 am to thetempleowl
We must be more like the nations of Europe. You obviously haven't been given this mantra, even after four years of the Oboe. Over the last few days several posters have spewed this meme ad nauseum regarding guns.


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Posted by TrueTiger on 1/13 at 9:36 am to Burt Reynolds
Pre WWI Germany – firearms legal
Post WWI Germany – firearms illegal (due to war treaty)
Pre WWII Germany – firearms back to legal (for some)
Post WWII Germany – firearms illegal again (due to failure to win war)
1956 Germany – firearms legal again
Post-modern school shooting, Germany – firearms illegal again

Out of this, I got that the German people wanted guns up until their recent school shootings. Of course what they wanted was interfered with twice by foreign acts, but that is the price of losing wars.



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Posted by Lsut81 on 1/13 at 9:42 am to TrueTiger
Why do y'all even respond to Burt Reynolds or Lucas Jaskson.??? All they do is Troll the board.





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Posted by NC_Tigah on 1/13 at 9:45 am to Burt Reynolds
quote:

Pro-Gun Advocates Have More In Common With Hitler Than They Think
What nonsense!



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Posted by TrueTiger on 1/13 at 9:50 am to Lsut81
I would like to see Lucas, Burt and Rex have a troll-off.

We can be the judges. Need to come up with rules and prizes.



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Posted by goatmilker on 1/13 at 9:53 am to Burt Reynolds
quote:

(except that anti-Jewish part!)





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Posted by Lsut81 on 1/13 at 9:54 am to TrueTiger
quote:

I would like to see Lucas, Burt and Rex have a troll-off.


I don't think Rex even trys to Troll, I really think he believes most of the shite he posts



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Posted by Burt Reynolds on 1/13 at 10:03 am to Lsut81
quote:

I don't think Rex even trys to Troll, I really think he believes most of the shite he posts

How bout you stop hijacking my thread
It's not our fault that some of the simpletons on this board can't defend their viewpoints. The progun stance is one that fails every time. The analogies and points that support it are weak and ambiguous so anytime they are called out, they have no other way to mask their stupidity other than yell: troll, troll, omg troll. Pretty lackluster debating if you ask me. Their best response is to call someone "Hitler" if that someone doesn't like assault weapons. This name calling has now become self-deprecating and futile. In reality pro gun advocates are the true neocon fascists.


This post was edited on 1/13 at 10:04 am

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Posted by Lsut81 on 1/13 at 10:07 am to Burt Reynolds
quote:

Burt Reynolds





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