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re: Being told not to complain about illegal immigration unless you are a Native Am.quote: And while we were busy fighting each other and arguing how to deal with the "Illegal immigrants" we loss the land of Milk and Honey. If people can't learn from history then it will be repeated. I see it as an invasion of another culture trying to take over this land of Milk and Honey again. Reply • Back to Top |
| Look man, I get your schtick. I wasn't arguing that the US has some fundamental right from God to be sovereign. If that's the kind of discussion I was after it would have been pretty obvious and you know it. That's the political structure and it was pretty obvious that the people I was discussing weren't arguing about whether states should or shouldn't be sovereign. Again, I was talking about people who share the same view that sovereignty affords border regulation as fundamental. Stop trying to make it sound like I was making some broad philosophical argument for state sovereignty. I clearly wasn't. I get that it gets boring around here for you guys because you don't have a position one way or the other inside the parameters of the current political structure, but that doesn't mean you get to hijack all the threads that want to have those discussions just because you want to talk about how much you hate the current structure. Once more, can't you just start your own thread? I know you don't honestly believe that I was trying to have that kind of discussion so please stop trying to prove how I enticed you with my wording or you didn't realize my intent. Reply • Back to Top |
quote: I wasn't aware that you were a forum moderator. I'll keep myself in check comrade  Reply • Back to Top |
quote: I'm not a forum moderator, but there is a framework on this site so that more concise discussions can be had and kept on topic. It's also just a matter of courtesy but I guess you are too interested in talking about what you want to talk about and ramming home your ideology to be polite. Gmorgan was courteous and mature enough to recognize my request when I specified my thread subject. I guess you'd rather be a douche though. quote:  Reply • Back to Top |
quote:I was watching soccer.  One of the liberals will come in here and say some insane stuff, the conservative border lovers will laugh at their insanity and gang up on the insane liberal and all have a big laugh at his expense. The insane liberal will get upset and continue posting with some kind of holier-than-thou, "I'm smarter than the majority" statements and saying more crazy stuff while doing so and the Republican border-lovers will all laugh, the liberals will run off and the thread will drop to the second page. There, I just did the whole thread for you. Reply • Back to Top |
quote: I stopped reading here... Reply • Back to Top |
quote: Within the United States, actually many tribes have their own sovereign governments protected by treaty. The relationship between Indian and federal/state governments can be complex but they are legally separate. Reply • Back to Top |
| as a libertarian-leaning conservative federalist (if you like labels), Protecting our borders is one of the few enumerated powers our federal government has. I have no problem with enforcing and criminalizing ILLEGAL immigration. I find it disgusting when people are called racist for wanting our federal immigration laws enforced. I believe that we need immigration reform that allows skilled labor, educated labor, and English speakers who could support themselves easier and faster means by which to enter the country legally. I believe that we need a means by which to monitor and punish companies for hiring illegal immigrant labor. I believe that we need to abolish (or at least lower) minimum wage laws. I also believe that illegal immigrants should not be allowed access to drivers licenses, entitlements, public education, and other benefits on the taxpayer dime while they contribute nothing in income tax. Just a few of my thoughts on immigration. Reply • Back to Top |
quote: LINK Reply • Back to Top |
quote: I believe he meant at the time of Western colonization of the New World. Reply • Back to Top |
quote: This is the topic I really wanted to hit on. You constantly hear the left arguing that OF COURSE they too are opposed to illegal immigration, blah, blah. And that the Hispanic American community that marches with Mexican flags and clamors about racism whenever the issue of taking stricter measures in combating illegal immigration is raised is also against ILLEGAL immigration, they are just rallying against some racist, anti-Mexican sentiment. But then of course you hear things like Bob Beckel agreeing with whatever Hispanic group put out that add seeking to stigmatize any reference of "illegal" when referring to admittedly illegal immigrants as racist. They are actively encouraging illegal immigration and fighting any efforts at effectively remedying it. And then I read things written by Mexican Americans all the time across the web that indicates that many are completely in favor of illegal immigration as well. This is an issue that I seldom hear addressed and I think it is a serious issue moving forward if we actually hope to solve the issue of illegal immigration. What does it mean for us if a large segment of Mexican Americans are going to vote against any attempts to effectively prevent illegal immigration from Mexico? ETA (link to video added): LINK This post was edited on 5/3 at 12:05 am Reply • Back to Top |
| The problem is that neither side wants to solve the problem. The GOP is funded by big corporations (including huge agro-businesses) that rely on the cheap labor. The Democrats are trying to use illegal immigrants to create a permanent majority dependent class with entitlements to insure political power and strengthen and expand entitlements. Until a third party is formed which will reject both of these ideas will we see any progress. Also, we should legalize marijuana. This post was edited on 5/3 at 12:10 am Reply • Back to Top |
quote: I think there are many on both sides that do want to solve the problem, but the political charade around it makes it impossible for civil and honest discourse. I also agree that the Republican establishment has been partially politically spineless in addressing the issue and partially corrupted by their ties to businesses which exploit the cheap labor. But an expanded work visa program could be an easy remedy to this. The fundamental problem, IMO however, is the racial politicization and intellectual dishonesty surrounding the issue that leads to nothing but finger pointing and stagnation, while a large facet of the left essentially rejects the notion of curbing illegal immigration all together. Republicans that do aggressively pursue addressing the issue are discounted as racists and their political viability tarnished. Make no mistake, George Bush was a joke in regards to regulating the border. But the problem is that any Republican who supports strong action there is defamed and essentially places themselves in a position to lose a tremendous amount of the Hispanic vote. Again, the seldom addressed tacit support of illegal immigration in the Hispanic American community is a large impediment to actually solving the issue. Reply • Back to Top |
| Well, if you want to get technical, dont complain about immigration unless your ancestors and you have lived in the Ethiopia area for the past several thousand years or so. People move around. People conquest other people. Not saying certain aspects of it are right or wrong, but thats been the course of human history up to this point. Reply • Back to Top |
quote: The American Indians immigrated here from Asia (just to add to your argument) therefore making the "you can't complain unless you were an American Indian" is rather funny. Reply • Back to Top |
quote:Basically, after the western Europeans got here without restrictions, they decided to keep out the different shades. If you can give a source of immigration law that isn't based in racism, I'd like to hear it. So it is quite proper to question immigration law in total. While we're at it, why do you deserve to live here any more than some guy born in Guatemala? What did you do that was so special? This country didn't have immigration restrictions for an awful long time & did fine. Reply • Back to Top |
Posted by secfan123 on 5/3 at 2:35 am to Tigah in the ATL quote: source. quote: Since your making the charge of racism, the burden of proof is on you. quote: Why because you say it is based on racism? quote: I paid taxes. quote: Well, while it was "doing fine" in your words we had no welfare, social security, income tax, and little federal regulation of industry. You want to go back to that? Reply • Back to Top |
quote: Nobody argued that racism and xenophobia haven't been an integral part of the history of American immigration policy. So I don't know who you are arguing with here. Are you using this as some kind of method of justifying the racial motivations of those Mexican Americans who support illegal immigration? Otherwise I don't see exactly how this addresses the issue. quote: Ok. What I've raised here is the discussion of illegal immigration, particularly from Mexico and the hidden support it receives and racial motivations behind it. Do you support the entry of Mexicans into the United States illegally or do you believe America should and must enforce it's immigration laws? Is it also ok for Mexican Americans to support immigration that goes against the wishes of the general American populace purely because it satisfies their own racial or cultural wishes? If it was wrong in the past, is it not wrong now? And hypocritical? quote: You're off on a wild tangent. Why do I deserve to live here over some Guatemalan? Well beside the fact that I never made any value judgments regarding anyone or whether they "deserve" to be here, one reasons is very obviously because I was born here. Unless you believe that the United States must take in every person in the world that wishes to live here lest be deemed as immoral, or however you wish to portray someone who believes in any form of immigration restriction, I can't see how that isn't quite apparent. I don't believe the United States, or any other country for that matter, is compelled by some abstract moral code to allow persons American citizenship. In fact, I think it would be absolutely irresponsible to do so. And last I checked, Guatemalans are permitted entry and citizenship in the United States. You're still ignoring the issue of whether illegal immigration is something that should be overlooked due to your personal opinions. The elected government of the US has come to agree on the current immigration standards. To my knowledge, they are open to peoples of all different races and nations. The US government also sees fit to regulate it's immigration for a plethora of reasons, some of which fundamentally have nothing to do with race. Thus why do you believe Mexican persons or any others should be allowed to break the laws of the United States or be the ones allowed to dictate American immigration to a sovereign American state with a democratically elected government? Reply • Back to Top |
| I see the Pubs are back to their racist tactics. Tell me when was the last time that abortion of a news network Fox showed a illegal Swede or German get deported? On top of that what Americans are going to do the jobs that these human beings who are deemed illegal are doing? I have no problem with anchor babies either recieving citizenship because they were born here. They didn't choose the US, why should they suffer? As for the law, thats just a guideline. Obama 2012. Forward or failure. You decide. Reply • Back to Top |
quote:  I don't know you as a poster so I am a bit unsure if this is serious or not. Reply • Back to Top • Refresh |
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