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Started By
Message
A pitcher hasn’t pitched 250 innings in 14 years. That's wild.
Posted on 5/17/24 at 11:22 pm
Posted on 5/17/24 at 11:22 pm
When are pitchers going to be men again and throw for 200+ innings a year for 15-20 years?
To add some perspective, in 1973, Nolan Ryan broke the single-season strikeout record with 383 strikeouts while pitching 326 innings and still did not lead the major leagues and innings pitched.
If Skenes pitched that many innings with his current strikeout rate, he’d end up with 587 strikeouts.
To add some perspective, in 1973, Nolan Ryan broke the single-season strikeout record with 383 strikeouts while pitching 326 innings and still did not lead the major leagues and innings pitched.
If Skenes pitched that many innings with his current strikeout rate, he’d end up with 587 strikeouts.
This post was edited on 5/18/24 at 8:03 am
13
Posted on 5/17/24 at 11:35 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
To add some perspective
It's only been 2 fricking games.
Posted on 5/18/24 at 12:02 am to theunknownknight
today's game is different than yesterday's game.
This post was edited on 5/18/24 at 12:19 am
Posted on 5/18/24 at 12:20 am to theunknownknight
quote:
A pitcher has pitched 250 innings in 14 years. That's wild.
I’ve never considered myself the smartest person in any room, but I have no clue what this means or what you’re trying to say
Posted on 5/18/24 at 12:42 am to TheRouxGuru
quote:
I’ve never considered myself the smartest person in any room, but I have no clue what this means or what you’re trying to say
Have you ever heard of burrow the qb? It’s what they do when times are hard.
Posted on 5/18/24 at 1:15 am to theunknownknight
quote:
f Skenes pitched that many innings with his current strikeout rate
just have an elite relievers strike out rate over the most innings pitched in a major league season in 14 years. thats all
This post was edited on 5/18/24 at 1:20 am
Posted on 5/18/24 at 1:39 am to theunknownknight
Who is the pitcher you're referring to? Honestly curious
Posted on 5/18/24 at 2:01 am to theunknownknight
quote:What was Nolan Ryan's K rate in the majors when he was Skenes' age?
To add some perspective, in 1973, Nolan Ryan broke the single-season strikeout record with 383 strikeouts while pitching 326 innings and still did not lead the major leagues and innings pitched.
If Skenes pitched that many innings with his current strikeout rate, he’d end up with 587 strikeouts.
Oh yeah, he pitched 7 whole minor league innings that year.
This post was edited on 5/18/24 at 2:05 am
Posted on 5/18/24 at 5:11 am to theunknownknight
quote:
That's wild.
Posted on 5/18/24 at 6:17 am to Sao
quote:
Who is the pitcher you're referring to? Honestly curious
Posted on 5/18/24 at 6:47 am to theunknownknight
And why don’t they bat anymore? Bunch of pussies.
Posted on 5/18/24 at 7:40 am to jangalang
quote:
Who is the pitcher you're referring to? Honestly curious
I think he is referring to Skenes.
Skenes hasn't always been a pitcher. He started as a catcher then Air Force turned him into a pitcher, if I have the story right. Therefore, Skenes isn't one of these little travel-ball shits who has been throwing curvevalls since he was 8 and whose arm is basically shot.
Posted on 5/18/24 at 8:19 am to theunknownknight
It will never happen ever again. That was then, this is now. And I don't romanticize what was, for everyone who survived like Ryan, there were four others who ended up on the junk heap. Ryan should not be held up as the standard, he was an absolute freak of nature.
The basic problem is the nature of the game has irrevocably changed. Back when people threw all those innings, every single solitary second of a game from the opening pitch of the first inning to the last pitch of the ninth inning was not a "game moment." As in winning and losing was riding on literally every action taken in the game.
There was a certain rhythm to the game, ebbs and flows, the pitchers may have been throwing a jillion pitches but they also would pace themselves, even Ryan. It wasn't balls to the wall, pedal to the metal all-out on every freaking pitch.
It is now, with little middle infielders like Altuve (not picking on him, he's a representative example that popped into my mind to amplify the point) capable of driving the ball 450 on any pitch. So teams want an arm out there capable of going balls to the wall, pedal to the metal all-out with every pitch.
Plus there's the fact that these people are business investments as much as they are athletes and competitors these days.
The basic problem is the nature of the game has irrevocably changed. Back when people threw all those innings, every single solitary second of a game from the opening pitch of the first inning to the last pitch of the ninth inning was not a "game moment." As in winning and losing was riding on literally every action taken in the game.
There was a certain rhythm to the game, ebbs and flows, the pitchers may have been throwing a jillion pitches but they also would pace themselves, even Ryan. It wasn't balls to the wall, pedal to the metal all-out on every freaking pitch.
It is now, with little middle infielders like Altuve (not picking on him, he's a representative example that popped into my mind to amplify the point) capable of driving the ball 450 on any pitch. So teams want an arm out there capable of going balls to the wall, pedal to the metal all-out with every pitch.
Plus there's the fact that these people are business investments as much as they are athletes and competitors these days.
Posted on 5/18/24 at 8:22 am to TheRouxGuru
quote:
I’ve never considered myself the smartest person in any room, but I have no clue what this means or what you’re trying to say
It means that is a pitiful performance rate. Baseball has 162 games a season and over a 14 yr. period that comes to 2268 games and those games are a minimum of 9 innings each so the total number of innings that he could have pitched in is 20,412.
To only have pitched in 250 of them is an incredibly low number for someone being paid what Major League pitchers get paid.
Here's another way of looking at it. Let's just say each inning pitched is a days work. Would you want someone who's worked 250 days out of 20,412????
This post was edited on 5/18/24 at 8:25 am
Posted on 5/18/24 at 8:42 am to InkStainedWretch
quote:
It will never happen ever again. That was then, this is now. And I don't romanticize what was, for everyone who survived like Ryan, there were four others who ended up on the junk heap. Ryan should not be held up as the standard, he was an absolute freak of nature.
You have more ending up in the junk heap and arm injuries now than you did them. It's all about mindset and actually "pitching" instead of "muh spin rate, Ah can throw it through a brick wall hurr durr". I love how these organizations set these "innings limits" and you still have a shite ton of injuries and these pitchers never develop or learn to actually pitch. You gave one example, Nolan Ryan, and called him a freak of nature. Dude, all the pitchers from that era(late 60's-early 2000) were iron men. Arm injuries happen in baseball. The human body is not made to throw a baseball the way we do. All this "just get me through five innings" crap has made the injuries worse.
Posted on 5/18/24 at 8:57 am to msudawg1200
We are way more in agreement than disagreement and I liked your reply to me. The focus on spin rate is idiotic, the human arm isn't made to do some of those things.
I mentioned Ryan in particular because the OP mentioned him specifically and for the last week I've seen 37 Facebook memes a day about that 235-pitch complete game he threw one time.
So I will revise to say for every old-school, rubber-armed pitcher from back then who survived the expectation of that workload ... my favorite in that group was Mickey Lolich ... there were four others who didn't survive, pitchers with incredible potential. Read up on Wayne Simpson, what the Reds did to him in 1969-70 was criminal as far as workload and his arm finally just popped and he was shot at 21 years old when he had Hall of Fame chops.
And I will say that the reason I said I don't romanticize it is what happened to Koufax, my favorite pitcher who ever lived. After he got good, the Dodgers pitched that man's arse off to the point of abuse, and yes I know he was great and he agreed to it and did it willingly, and he went out on his shield 10 years sooner than he should have. There was a game in 1962 against the Mets, the worst team there ever was, where Koufax was a little off, struggled a little, and Walter Alston left him in for nine and he threw like 215 pitches in a 13-8 win, again over the damn 1962 Mets, and I think that was stupid then or now. And it's not like those Dodger teams didn't have great bullpens.
There's also the fact that kids are being pushed so early by mamas and daddies who hate their jobs and are counting on Junior to hit the jackpot so they can retire that you have people coming to MLB who've done had Tommy John surgery in middle school.
And they absolutely aren't being properly schooled in fundamentals.
OP just said it was wild that it's been 14 years since somebody pitched 250 innings, and I offered my .02 on why that is and why I think that's the way it's going to continue to be. Nothing more or less. Didn't say I was in love with it. The pendulum is out of whack, mic drop.
I mentioned Ryan in particular because the OP mentioned him specifically and for the last week I've seen 37 Facebook memes a day about that 235-pitch complete game he threw one time.
So I will revise to say for every old-school, rubber-armed pitcher from back then who survived the expectation of that workload ... my favorite in that group was Mickey Lolich ... there were four others who didn't survive, pitchers with incredible potential. Read up on Wayne Simpson, what the Reds did to him in 1969-70 was criminal as far as workload and his arm finally just popped and he was shot at 21 years old when he had Hall of Fame chops.
And I will say that the reason I said I don't romanticize it is what happened to Koufax, my favorite pitcher who ever lived. After he got good, the Dodgers pitched that man's arse off to the point of abuse, and yes I know he was great and he agreed to it and did it willingly, and he went out on his shield 10 years sooner than he should have. There was a game in 1962 against the Mets, the worst team there ever was, where Koufax was a little off, struggled a little, and Walter Alston left him in for nine and he threw like 215 pitches in a 13-8 win, again over the damn 1962 Mets, and I think that was stupid then or now. And it's not like those Dodger teams didn't have great bullpens.
There's also the fact that kids are being pushed so early by mamas and daddies who hate their jobs and are counting on Junior to hit the jackpot so they can retire that you have people coming to MLB who've done had Tommy John surgery in middle school.
And they absolutely aren't being properly schooled in fundamentals.
OP just said it was wild that it's been 14 years since somebody pitched 250 innings, and I offered my .02 on why that is and why I think that's the way it's going to continue to be. Nothing more or less. Didn't say I was in love with it. The pendulum is out of whack, mic drop.
This post was edited on 5/18/24 at 8:59 am
Posted on 5/18/24 at 9:20 am to msudawg1200
And let me add something else about what I said about "game moments." It's not directly about pitching usage, but I stand by my comment that the way the game in general is played today fuels all this ... every batter is trying to hit the ball to Uranus on every pitch, which makes teams want a 110-mph arm out there throwing stuff with insane spin on every pitch, and it's a vicious circle.
Willie Mays in his authorized biography ... and Willie absolutely could have been shooting BS, who knows ... said that there were times in his career where if it wasn't a critical situation, like early in a game when it was scoreless and no runners were on base, he'd act like he was badly fooled on a pitch or even strike out, on purpose. He did that because he knew the odds were good that he would see that pitcher again, there would likely be runners on base in that situation, and that pitcher would think, "I got him out with this before, I'm going there again," and Willie would annihilate the ball.
The absence of strategic play and thought like that is as big a negative in today's game IMO as pitchers not going nine. Sometimes today's game reminds me of those old traveling slow-pitch softball teams like Men of Steele where 300-pounders would get pissed off and throw their bats if they didn't hit home runs.
Willie Mays in his authorized biography ... and Willie absolutely could have been shooting BS, who knows ... said that there were times in his career where if it wasn't a critical situation, like early in a game when it was scoreless and no runners were on base, he'd act like he was badly fooled on a pitch or even strike out, on purpose. He did that because he knew the odds were good that he would see that pitcher again, there would likely be runners on base in that situation, and that pitcher would think, "I got him out with this before, I'm going there again," and Willie would annihilate the ball.
The absence of strategic play and thought like that is as big a negative in today's game IMO as pitchers not going nine. Sometimes today's game reminds me of those old traveling slow-pitch softball teams like Men of Steele where 300-pounders would get pissed off and throw their bats if they didn't hit home runs.
Posted on 5/18/24 at 9:34 am to gumbo2176
quote:
Here's another way of looking at it. Let's just say each inning pitched is a days work. Would you want someone who's worked 250 days out of 20,412????
you are incorrect.
It is about 250 innings in a year not in 14 years.
Posted on 5/18/24 at 9:39 am to theunknownknight
quote:
When are pitchers going to be men again and throw for 200+ innings a year for 15-20 years?
Don't blame pitchers. Blame organizations and Scott Boras. The overprotectiveness of pitchers is directly related to the increased pitcher salaries.
Posted on 5/18/24 at 9:45 am to Sao
my first guess was Verlander.
he threw 251 in 2011 which is 13 years ago
he threw 251 in 2011 which is 13 years ago
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