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Marques Brownlee explains the Apple Antitrust lawsuit

Posted on 4/7/24 at 9:35 pm
Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
51469 posts
Posted on 4/7/24 at 9:35 pm
Youtube

Brownlee does a pretty good job of providing a balanced explanation of both sides.
This post was edited on 4/7/24 at 9:36 pm
Posted by TigerGman
Center of the Universe
Member since Sep 2006
11241 posts
Posted on 4/8/24 at 5:20 am to
He lays out some of it ok, but he only lightly dances around the essential issue of "social stigma" and impact on certain "similar demographics" as the basis for bringing an anti trust suit.

Assuming he's not lawyer he doesn't get it either or he's ignoring pointing those things out on purpose.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423363 posts
Posted on 4/8/24 at 6:44 am to
quote:

He lays out some of it ok, but he only lightly dances around the essential issue of "social stigma" and impact on certain "similar demographics" as the basis for bringing an anti trust suit.

The hill of stupidity you're willing to die on

quote:

Assuming he's not lawyer he doesn't get it either or he's ignoring pointing those things out on purpose.

Or, he's just not an idiot.

Signed, an actual lawyer who already explained this to you.
Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
51469 posts
Posted on 4/8/24 at 7:22 am to
I thought it was decent for a layman
Posted by TigerGman
Center of the Universe
Member since Sep 2006
11241 posts
Posted on 4/8/24 at 7:25 am to
quote:

The hill of stupidity you're willing to die on



quote:

Signed, an actual lawyer who already explained this to you.


The only thing you explained is how your leftist indoctrination at Stanford allows you to justify your DEI ignorant take.

So still waiting for an "actual lawyer" to show me where in the anti trust statutes it says "social stigma" against certain "demographics " is a basis for an anti-trust law suit.

Exact statutes and language please...

Tick Tock Tick Tock.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423363 posts
Posted on 4/8/24 at 7:29 am to
I forgot you were a lawyer, too
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423363 posts
Posted on 4/8/24 at 7:30 am to
quote:

how your leftist indoctrination at Stanford


OK you just found an even bigger hill of stupidity to die on

quote:

So still waiting for an "actual lawyer" to show me where in the anti trust statutes it says "social stigma" against certain "demographics " is a basis for an anti-trust law suit.

No statute is that specific, sparky.

Bad question is bad. You will never understand why, though.
Posted by TigerGman
Center of the Universe
Member since Sep 2006
11241 posts
Posted on 4/8/24 at 7:32 am to
quote:

No statute is that specific, sparky.



Now we're getting to it. Are you denying social stigma against demographics is a basis for the DOJ's suit?
Posted by SaintEB
Member since Jul 2008
22781 posts
Posted on 4/8/24 at 8:46 am to
As a non-lawyer and all around moron that doesn't understand any of this, can you explain to me what a social stigma against demographics means and how it effects Apple?
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423363 posts
Posted on 4/8/24 at 9:22 am to
quote:

Are you denying social stigma against demographics is a basis for the DOJ's suit?

No.

However, the failure in your "argument" is ignoring that these are economic issues and fall directly under our anti-trust law.

Your entire "argument" is based off ignorance of the level of a 1st grader.
Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
51469 posts
Posted on 4/8/24 at 9:52 am to
Time to dust off the Rule of Reason.
Posted by Fat Batman
Gotham City, NJ
Member since Oct 2019
1387 posts
Posted on 4/8/24 at 10:20 am to
quote:

As a non-lawyer and all around moron that doesn't understand any of this, can you explain to me what a social stigma against demographics means and how it effects Apple?


1. Obtaining a monopoly by superior products, innovation, or business acumen is legal; however, the same result achieved by exclusionary or predatory acts may raise antitrust concerns.
2. Exclusionary conduct can include switching costs (high costs that users of a product would face in switching to a substitute)
3. Switching costs can be monetary, psychological, effort-based, and time-based.
4. Social stigma can be a psycological switching cost for apple users moving to a competitor.
5. The social stigma does not come from apple creating a better messaging experience solely on merit. It comes from excluding iphone users from messaging non-iphone users in a secure and modern fashion.
Posted by TigerGman
Center of the Universe
Member since Sep 2006
11241 posts
Posted on 4/8/24 at 11:40 am to
quote:

However, the failure in your "argument" is ignoring that these are economic issues and fall directly under our anti-trust law.


So, in other words, "actual lawyer", if the Biden administration says a company's successful business practices socially stigmatize blacks, for example, then it can use that as a basis for anti-trust action?

Riddle me that big tree hugger...
Posted by Fat Batman
Gotham City, NJ
Member since Oct 2019
1387 posts
Posted on 4/8/24 at 11:47 am to
big surprise, another straw man
Posted by TigerGman
Center of the Universe
Member since Sep 2006
11241 posts
Posted on 4/8/24 at 11:52 am to
quote:

As a non-lawyer and all around moron that doesn't understand any of this, can you explain to me what a social stigma against demographics means and how it effects Apple?


Look, it's high-level stuff, especially for a layman. Even "actual lawyers" obviously struggle with it.

The key to remember is it's the Biden DOJ, not me, that says in its lawsuit it's relying on social stigma against, say, blacks, for example, to sue Apple.

You have to understand that just because the DOJ, much less the Biden administration, says it is so doesn't mean they are right or will win the suit on that basis. The DOJ files suits and also files them on invalid grounds and loses.

It's a pure bullshite argument; the anti-trust laws were never enacted to enforce social engineering. Hopefully, the lower courts, and if not, the Supreme Court will eventually make short shrift of it.
Posted by Fat Batman
Gotham City, NJ
Member since Oct 2019
1387 posts
Posted on 4/8/24 at 12:08 pm to
quote:

The key to remember is it's the Biden DOJ, not me, that says in its lawsuit it's relying on social stigma against, say, blacks, for example, to sue Apple.


except you made this up.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423363 posts
Posted on 4/8/24 at 12:28 pm to
quote:

if the Biden administration says a company's successful business practices socially stigmatize blacks, for example, then it can use that as a basis for anti-trust action?

It could, theoretically, depending on the underlying economic claims.

here is a paper discussing it


They would likely use other avenues, though, like the FTC or anti-discrimination statutes.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423363 posts
Posted on 4/8/24 at 12:30 pm to
quote:

it's relying on social stigma against, say, blacks, for example

Where did the petition reference racial stigma?

quote:

the anti-trust laws were never enacted to enforce social engineering

That's literally exactly why they were enacted, whether you support it or not.

Regulating economics and variables of economics like monopolies/trusts, by default, is social engineering.
Posted by TigerGman
Center of the Universe
Member since Sep 2006
11241 posts
Posted on 4/8/24 at 1:08 pm to
quote:

except you made this up.


I made up teenagers and other "similar demographics"? Do tell me what the Biden administration means by other similar demographics if it's not minorities.

Let me make this simpler for those of you that are confused. The gist of this suit is about messaging over a cellphone. In other words, messaging/texting.

Apple doesn't have a monopoly on texting; it simply has its own version called instant messaging. In a highly competitive market with Android/Google and other cell phone makers, people are free to pick and choose as they please. Where's the monopoly? Apple doesn't own the text messaging market. It simply owns its own version of it.

The DOJ knows this. Since there's no true monopoly, what's the anti-trust problem here? There isn't one. You don't sue a company just because it is successful or popular in something. The Biden DOJ is left with having to resort to social stigma impacting "certain demographics" by using one version over the other as an excuse to bring down Apple's "walled garden".

Boo Hoo, poor little minority/teenager feels looked down upon for having green bubbles, and buys Apple instead, so we gonna hit Apple where it hurts.

I mean, WTF?









Posted by wheelr
Member since Jul 2012
5149 posts
Posted on 4/8/24 at 1:21 pm to
quote:

TigerGman


Apple lawyers don't work as hard defending Apple as this guy.

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