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Started By
Message
re: Would someone please explain the crimes Trump committed?
Posted on 4/26/24 at 11:02 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 4/26/24 at 11:02 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
It's fraud-based.
You can't defraud yourself, who is it claimed he perpetuated this fraud upon?
1
Posted on 4/26/24 at 11:03 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
No. It's fraud-based.
So why again is Stormy having to pay Trump?
Posted on 4/26/24 at 11:03 am to BBONDS25
I don't remember. I thought that was a separate issue. But that's a merits question.
I was just answering OP's question about the theory of the NY case. It's one of the weaker ones in the power rankings.
I was just answering OP's question about the theory of the NY case. It's one of the weaker ones in the power rankings.
Posted on 4/26/24 at 11:04 am to BamaAtl
quote:
He's on tape asking about it, and multiple witnesses have/will testify that he knew what it was about. Pecker already did this week.
Is he? If it's that clear cut this should already be over .
Posted on 4/26/24 at 11:04 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The lawyer who handled it being prosecuted for related crimes, for starters
Oh this goes back to that fake crime.
It's almost like the justice system is trash (it is)
Posted on 4/26/24 at 11:04 am to SoggyBottomBaw
quote:
Justice Barrett pretty much destroyed any basis for states to ever bring cases like this against Executives
What does a case involving allegedly illegal payment schemes prior to a person running for President have to do with potential immunity while that person is later President?
Posted on 4/26/24 at 11:05 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Where would that land on the seriousness of shite rich people pull in New York?
Instead of paying his attorney (or women) directly with a set payment, he had his attorney make payments. Then the attorney sent invoices to Trump for random amounts as a retainer fee. This was all done to disguise the payments from the company to the women (for plausible deniability, presumably).
Posted on 4/26/24 at 11:05 am to Turbeauxdog
quote:
You can't defraud yourself
You can defraud the records of your corporation, which is the alleged crime.
Posted on 4/26/24 at 11:05 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I was just answering OP's question about the theory of the NY case. It's one of the weaker ones in the power rankings.
Fair enough.
Posted on 4/26/24 at 11:06 am to Lg
quote:
So why again is Stormy having to pay Trump?
That is for Avenatti having her bring a terrible lawsuit for defamation. Has nothing to do with this case directly.
Posted on 4/26/24 at 11:12 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The wacky NY records law has an expansive view of fraudulent business records
In other words, Ill have a ham sammich please.
Its nonsense and every, I mean every legal expert says so. Bragg was the only one stupid enough to try it, well him and that other idiot in fulton county......Im sensing a pattern here......did they put you on retainer sfp? just kiddin.
Posted on 4/26/24 at 11:14 am to MightyYat
quote:
Is he? If it's that clear cut this should already be over .
He is, and it is, barring jury nullification.
Posted on 4/26/24 at 11:15 am to rebeloke
quote:
Again, where is the crime?
Trump has been charged under New York Penal Law §175.10, which reads as follows:
A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.
So, the state's case hinges on two things -- falsifying business records and falsifying those business records when the intent to defraud includes the intent to commit another crime or aid in its concealment. In this instance, the state is alleging that Trump falsified business records with the intent to commit another crime (which were the FEC crimes to which Michael Cohen pled guilty and served time in prison -- causing an unlawful campaign contribution with his involvement in orchestrating the payment from AMI to Karen McDougal, and making an excessive campaign contribution for the payment to Stormy Daniels).
So, the state has to prove that the business records were falsified (that gets you to a misdemeanor). Then, the state has to prove that the business records were falsified (when the intent to defraud included the intent to commit campaign finance violations or aid in their concealment) -- that gets you to a felony.
That's why he's in court, and that's why, in my opinion, this case will largely depend on the examination of Michael Cohen and testimony surrounding how (and how many) transactions were handled with McDougal and Stormy Daniels and the derivative transactions recorded as legal fees paid by Trump to Cohen.
He could have avoided all of this with a direct payment and an NDA.
This post was edited on 4/26/24 at 1:20 pm
Posted on 4/26/24 at 11:15 am to BamaAtl
quote:
He is, and it is, barring jury nullification.
Noted...
Posted on 4/26/24 at 11:18 am to BamaAtl
quote:
BamaAtl
When are ever going to be correct?
Posted on 4/26/24 at 11:20 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You can defraud the records of your corporation, which is the alleged crime.
You can't defraud records. You can falsify records to defraud a corporation but if the corporation has no damages that's a difficult (impossible) argument to make.
This seems even worse because I can't even see what's fraudulent , the lawyer was on retainer, performed a service, and was paid fees. Does ny law require attorney invoices to say "whore hush money"?
Posted on 4/26/24 at 11:21 am to SlowFlowPro
He didnt "defraud' the records of his company.
This is the definition:
There was no law broken and no amount of limbo can make it so.
This is the definition:
quote:
to take something illegally from a person, company, etc., or to prevent someone from having something that is legally theirs by deceiving them
There was no law broken and no amount of limbo can make it so.
Posted on 4/26/24 at 11:23 am to CreoleTigerEsq
quote:
which were the FEC crimes to which Michael Cohen pled guilty and served time in prison -- causing an unlawful campaign contribution with his involvement in orchestrating the payment from AMI to Karen McDougal, and making an excessive campaign contribution for the payment to Stormy Daniels
Which is completely retarded given paying whores obviously had a benefit to his public persona.
If he would have paid out of his campaign ny would be prosecuting him for improper campaign financing too.
It's almost like the justice system is trash (it is)
Posted on 4/26/24 at 11:24 am to trinidadtiger
You have to be a complete moron if you think Trump handles any of this shite.
That’s why SFP is a believer
That’s why SFP is a believer
Posted on 4/26/24 at 11:25 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The wacky NY records law has an expansive view of fraudulent business records, and the allegation is that the obfuscations I posted above was fraud, per the statute.
Some of the legal experts on the cable news keep stating that the prosecution failed to specify "an election crime or a valid theory of fraud."
What do they mean by this? Do you know which NY statute Bragg is prosecuting?
The quote cited is from Boston University law professor Jed Handelsman Shugerman.
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