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Message
re: SCOTUS isn’t going to mess with immunity
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:03 pm to Robin Masters
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:03 pm to Robin Masters
No, it’s speaking of convicted in the Senate and impeached.
You have to be indicted before being convicted in a criminal context. It says the convicted party is still subject to indictment, i.e. the conviction is speaking of impeachment.
You have to be indicted before being convicted in a criminal context. It says the convicted party is still subject to indictment, i.e. the conviction is speaking of impeachment.
This post was edited on 4/25/24 at 9:06 pm
1
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:06 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
No, it’s speaking of convicted in the Senate and impeached.
I know. Point being you have to be convicted during the impeachment proceedings to then be eligible for criminal indictment.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:07 pm to Robin Masters
Oh ok. I misunderstood your post.
If you’re “still subject” to something, you’re subject to it even if the something doesn’t happen.
If you wear purple panties to work tomorrow, you’re still subject to me showing up and punching you in the face.
I can still show up and punch you in the face even if you don’t wear purple panties.
All the original statement says is you wearing purple panties doesn’t insulate you from nor preclude me from punching you in the face.
If you’re “still subject” to something, you’re subject to it even if the something doesn’t happen.
If you wear purple panties to work tomorrow, you’re still subject to me showing up and punching you in the face.
I can still show up and punch you in the face even if you don’t wear purple panties.
All the original statement says is you wearing purple panties doesn’t insulate you from nor preclude me from punching you in the face.
This post was edited on 4/25/24 at 9:15 pm
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:09 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
The issue has always been whether whatever actions Smith is relying on are within POTUS’s official duties.
Yes, and it didn’t require the Supreme Court to figure this out. However, Trump’s team has taken the position that the office confers absolute immunity to do anything at all, the true reproduction of king. No thinking person ever bought what Trump has tried to sell here. If Trump gets a single vote for this bonkers argument, shame on that Justice.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:09 pm to SoonerK
quote:
Neither of the Impeachments of Trump had to do with insurrection.
The second impeachment occurred on January 13, 2021 for inciting insurrection, then the Senate acquitted him in a trial. Come out from under that rock.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:10 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
you’re “still subject” to something, you’re subject to it even if the something doesn’t happen.
Sure. If you’re the “party convicted”. It doesn’t say “party” or “party accused”. It’s specifically qualified the eligible party as one who has been convicted.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:14 pm to Robin Masters
quote:
It’s specifically qualified the eligible party as one who has been convicted.
Yes, and it says they’re “still subject” to the criminal process. Nothing says they enjoy immunity from the criminal process until they are convicted and impeached.
It’s clarifying that impeachment doesn’t confer immunity from criminal prosecution.
This post was edited on 4/25/24 at 9:15 pm
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:17 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
Yes, and it says they’re “still subject” to the criminal process. Nothing says they enjoy immunity from the criminal process until they are convicted and impeached.
Except they wouldn’t be “convicted” until they are found guilty in an impeachment proceeding so they wouldn’t be subject to criminal proceedings.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:19 pm to Robin Masters
quote:
Except they wouldn’t be “convicted” until they are found guilty in an impeachment proceeding so they wouldn’t be subject to criminal proceedings.
Yeah man, you’re just missing this one. I think you’re in good faith but this is just simple reading and sentence structure. Good luck with it.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:22 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
Yeah man, you’re just missing this one. I think you’re in good faith but this is just simple reading and sentence structure. Good luck with it.
Anything is possible I guess and I’m certainly not arguing just to be a contrarian but you’re right I’m not seeing it and to me it makes perfect sense that you must first be convicted in the senate to then be eligible for criminal indictment as opposed to what you say it means.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:28 pm to Robin Masters
I’ll try one more time because what you and I responded to was the last snippet of the pertinent clause. Here’s the entire thing:
The first part speaks of impeachment and that being impeached by, in and of itself only results in removal and disqualification from office (ie no criminal penalties for the impeachment itself-it’s a purely political mechanism). The key words from there are “but” and then “nevertheless be liable and subject to” because it means that the impeached party will not suffer criminal penalties as a result of the impeachment alone, but they (the party convicted of impeachment) “are still subject to “indictment, trial, criminal process, etc.”
All it’s saying is that being impeached doesn’t grant you immunity from prosecution. You can be impeached and prosecuted. You don’t have to be impeached to be prosecuted.
quote:
Judgment in cases of impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States: but the party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to indictment, trial, judgment and punishment, according to law.
The first part speaks of impeachment and that being impeached by, in and of itself only results in removal and disqualification from office (ie no criminal penalties for the impeachment itself-it’s a purely political mechanism). The key words from there are “but” and then “nevertheless be liable and subject to” because it means that the impeached party will not suffer criminal penalties as a result of the impeachment alone, but they (the party convicted of impeachment) “are still subject to “indictment, trial, criminal process, etc.”
All it’s saying is that being impeached doesn’t grant you immunity from prosecution. You can be impeached and prosecuted. You don’t have to be impeached to be prosecuted.
This post was edited on 4/25/24 at 9:32 pm
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:34 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
The first part speaks of impeachment and that being impeached by, in and of itself only results in removal and disqualification from office (ie no criminal penalties for the impeachment itself-it’s a purely political mechanism). The key words from there are “but” and then “nevertheless be liable and subject to” because it means that the impeached party will not suffer criminal penalties as a result of the impeachment alone, but they (the party convicted of impeachment) “are still subject to “indictment, trial, criminal process, etc.”
This is what I’ve been saying it means.
You even say that the party convicted of impeachment “are still subject to indictment…”.
Ie, you must be convicted during impeachment to be subject to indictment.
quote:
You don’t have to be impeached to be prosecuted.
You wouldn’t be a “convicted party” then.
This post was edited on 4/25/24 at 9:35 pm
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:36 pm to Robin Masters
Google “nevertheless”
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:38 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
Google “nevertheless”
Google “convicted”.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:45 pm to da prophet
quote:
By your premise DA’s and states could prosecute a former president for anything they did while in office
No, I never said that.
All I am saying is that a successful impeachment is not a pre-requisite to charging a former President for alleged crimes committed while in office.
There are still other issues at play that can bar such charges/prosecutions - like immunity for official acts.
Obviously, I am not some big-time Supreme Court lawyer so I could be off here, that is just how I read the Constitution.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:45 pm to Robin Masters
I think that was the first drop of pigeon shite on the chess board. I’m out.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:56 pm to Robin Masters
The biggest issue/loophole in the absolute immunity argument is that a President, in the last hour of their Term, could coordinate the murder of their political opponent, jail all members of Congress from the opposing party along with all the Supreme Court Justices. This would create a situation where Congress would not have time to impeach/remove from office with no high court to rule on any challenge.
Impeachment cannot be the only remedy to hold a President accountable for a crime.
Impeachment cannot be the only remedy to hold a President accountable for a crime.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 10:00 pm to SlowFlowPro
That would be you in this instance my friend. My hunch is after Trump wins with enough votes to stop a theft this time, he will order an Investigation into what we all know is a Conspiracy by the Biden White House to use Lawfare to try t win an election. Every Court Case has been put forth by Biden cronies, that's illegal, you can nit target a U.S. Citizen with the power of the Gov. That Stazi and Nazi stuff !! That is Mao tactics.
Biden has a man in Georgia on that case, which is NO CASE, in 1960 Hawaii sent both sets of Electors because the outcome was challenged, Kennedy won by stealing Chicago/Ill. and it cost him dearly in the end. Biden has the 3rd in charge at the DOJ leading this case, which is NO CASE, they know it will go nowhere in the end, but Trump has to sit in the courtroom 8-12 weeks thats the GOAL. Its not a CRIME we all know this, you know this. The FEC refused to even charge a misdemeanor, they however made Hillary pay back the same type thing as a fine fir the Russia lie expense, yet she has not been charged with anything.
They lost 2020, they see Trump is stronger than ever, he got 75 million votes in 2020 which means doofus got maybe 59 million or so. They counted illegal votes until they won, the can not do that again, or it might led to a civil war. Plus there is no COVID 19, and most of those actual deaths were not COVID they played us. No deaths from the flu all year, RIGHT !!
What is about to hit this nation is a tsunami of epic proportions, FINANCIALLY SPEAKING, mark my words. All this psycho babble will mean nothing from this point on. Biden is a brain dead stiff, the Commies are running our nation into the ground for one reason, we have to fall for the E.U. to rise.
You will understand it all soo my friend.
Biden has a man in Georgia on that case, which is NO CASE, in 1960 Hawaii sent both sets of Electors because the outcome was challenged, Kennedy won by stealing Chicago/Ill. and it cost him dearly in the end. Biden has the 3rd in charge at the DOJ leading this case, which is NO CASE, they know it will go nowhere in the end, but Trump has to sit in the courtroom 8-12 weeks thats the GOAL. Its not a CRIME we all know this, you know this. The FEC refused to even charge a misdemeanor, they however made Hillary pay back the same type thing as a fine fir the Russia lie expense, yet she has not been charged with anything.
They lost 2020, they see Trump is stronger than ever, he got 75 million votes in 2020 which means doofus got maybe 59 million or so. They counted illegal votes until they won, the can not do that again, or it might led to a civil war. Plus there is no COVID 19, and most of those actual deaths were not COVID they played us. No deaths from the flu all year, RIGHT !!
What is about to hit this nation is a tsunami of epic proportions, FINANCIALLY SPEAKING, mark my words. All this psycho babble will mean nothing from this point on. Biden is a brain dead stiff, the Commies are running our nation into the ground for one reason, we have to fall for the E.U. to rise.
You will understand it all soo my friend.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 10:02 pm to TTOWN RONMON
Make sure you fortify your trailer park.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 10:23 pm to boosiebadazz
I am very curious on what SCOTUS does.
There is the potential that Biden and others could be subject to prosecution in Texas for violation of their laws regarding illegal aliens (as an example) and the resultant argument on immunity.
Just saying
There is the potential that Biden and others could be subject to prosecution in Texas for violation of their laws regarding illegal aliens (as an example) and the resultant argument on immunity.
Just saying
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