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Really good video here with James Cameron describing the Titanic submarine catastrophe.
Posted on 6/23/23 at 10:44 am
Posted on 6/23/23 at 10:44 am
His description is consistent with what I've described in other threads in terms of physics and material science and it's just at a rudimentary level (carbon fiber is a POOR material choice). He does not mention anything about material toughness, which carbon fiber does not have much of, but does talk about fatigue cycles. Furthermore he does add non engineering data points that support the implosion theory...I believe there is enough evidence pointing to implosion fact, not theory.
This is not necessarily an appeal to authority. It's an appeal to experience based on physics and evidence.
LINK
BTW, James Cameron's world record deep dive down to the Marian Trench was under the hydrostatic pressure of over 16,100 psig.
ETA: just as an FYI the MINIMUM shell wall thickness to reach 35,787 feet for a steel shell (assuming 6' diameter) with 70,000 psi yield strength is 8.28 inches before the steel yields. That is with no factor of safety.
That is incredibly thick.
This is not necessarily an appeal to authority. It's an appeal to experience based on physics and evidence.
LINK
BTW, James Cameron's world record deep dive down to the Marian Trench was under the hydrostatic pressure of over 16,100 psig.
ETA: just as an FYI the MINIMUM shell wall thickness to reach 35,787 feet for a steel shell (assuming 6' diameter) with 70,000 psi yield strength is 8.28 inches before the steel yields. That is with no factor of safety.
That is incredibly thick. This post was edited on 6/23/23 at 11:00 am
14
Posted on 6/23/23 at 10:45 am to GumboPot
Posted on 6/23/23 at 10:46 am to GumboPot
Wrong board
Posted on 6/23/23 at 10:50 am to GumboPot
I'm only familiar with carbon fiber from some discussions related to cycling. I was surprised it could be used in any capacity for submarine work. Almost seems like a miracle that the vessel completed any of these dives.
Posted on 6/23/23 at 10:51 am to GumboPot
"Now there is one wreck lying next to the other wreck for the same damn reason".
J Cameron
J Cameron
Posted on 6/23/23 at 10:52 am to GumboPot
honestly, i found their use of composite material (as opposed to the successful but outdated fifty year old technology of steel use) to be inspiring.
Posted on 6/23/23 at 10:52 am to goatmilker
quote:
"Now there is one wreck lying next to the other wreck for the same damn reason".
the sub hit an iceberg. everyone knows.
Posted on 6/23/23 at 10:57 am to POTUS2024
quote:
Almost seems like a miracle that the vessel completed any of these dives.
You are describing the problem with using carbon fiber in structural conditions and cycle loading. Micro cracks and delamination happen under each cycle. Carbon fiber is great for non structural parts but not so much for structural members.
I understand a bike frame is a structural member. But when a bike frame fails the consequences are not that great so the benefit of light weight carbon fiber outweighs any structural failures. Your frame cracks you just buy a new one. Not that big of a deal.
Posted on 6/23/23 at 11:03 am to GumboPot
They DO NOT want anybody looking at the Titanic. It could prove it really is not the Titanic.
Posted on 6/23/23 at 11:38 am to GumboPot
quote:
Carbon fiber is great for non structural parts but not so much for structural members.
The problem here is application. Where you are definitely correct and why it's a poor application in a submarine is the cycle loading. With the pressures involved and the level of expansion and contraction, instead of deforming like a metal would in high stress scenarios, it fractures and not in a progressive way. Most metals before failure will bend, stretch, expand. Carbon fibre will reach the limits of the material and shear rapidly. In a sub that leaves zero safety buffer and rapid decompression. A very odd choice of material considering the application and safety concerns.
Great choice for F1 cars and their structural components. Strong, light, better than any metal. But it's unforgiving once it shears. In a sub, instead of protecting you better than any material available, it means a rapid death.
This post was edited on 6/23/23 at 11:42 am
Posted on 6/23/23 at 12:02 pm to Timeoday
quote:
They DO NOT want anybody looking at the Titanic. It could prove it really is not the Titanic.
So all the other visits to the wreck site were faked? If it isn't the Titanic wreck, what is it?
Posted on 6/23/23 at 12:04 pm to Timeoday
quote:
They DO NOT want anybody looking at the Titanic. It could prove it really is not the Titanic.
Everyone knows the Titanic is just 3D printed man. Cmon.
Posted on 6/23/23 at 12:16 pm to GumboPot
The dude is very knowledgeable.
The vessel imploded and from what I understand the sudden compression results in a diesel detonation whereby everything combustible is vaporized.
There won't be any bodies to recover.
At least it was fast. Human consciousness runs half a second behind actual events. So, when your brain registers an event, the actual event happened .5 seconds ago. They never knew they died.
The vessel imploded and from what I understand the sudden compression results in a diesel detonation whereby everything combustible is vaporized.
There won't be any bodies to recover.
At least it was fast. Human consciousness runs half a second behind actual events. So, when your brain registers an event, the actual event happened .5 seconds ago. They never knew they died.
Posted on 6/23/23 at 12:17 pm to GumboPot
There was some French sub expert on a French feed on Monday who was saying much of what Cameron said. He said they were dead and probably dead within minutes of losing contact if not at the moment.
Posted on 6/23/23 at 12:24 pm to Northshore Aggie
quote:Ain't this a great circus...
the sub hit an iceberg. everyone knows.
hey look over at the other ring...
those kids still being mutilated and being exposed to male freaks doing perverted shite?
Posted on 6/23/23 at 12:32 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
Human consciousness runs half a second behind actual events. So, when your brain registers an event, the actual event happened .5 seconds ago. They never knew they died.
I think thats a little slow for things like visual identification but in this instance they didnt really perceive the actual death blow. Cameron did say they were likely able to hear the hull integrity failing prior to implosion.
Posted on 6/23/23 at 12:51 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
The vessel imploded and from what I understand the sudden compression results in a diesel detonation whereby everything combustible is vaporized.
I don't believe you are insinuated that this sub was powered by diesel you are just describing the concept of compression ignition. FWIW, the compression cycle of diesel engines is about 400 psig. The compression cycle of gasoline engines are less than 200 psig. On a four cycle engine every fourth cycle the spark plug ignites. The other three cycles the fuel is ignited by compression. If engines were perfectly adiabatic spark plugs would not be needed after startup.
Posted on 6/23/23 at 12:54 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
Cameron did say they were likely able to hear the hull integrity failing prior to implosion.
Probably so. But once the hull was breeched death was instantaneous.
Posted on 6/23/23 at 12:58 pm to GumboPot
quote:
I don't believe you are insinuated that this sub was powered by diesel you are just describing the concept of compression ignition.
Yes. I know its not a diesel submersible.
I meant the phenomenon that compression creates heat.
Posted on 6/23/23 at 12:59 pm to Timeoday
quote:
They DO NOT want anybody looking at the Titanic. It could prove it really is not the Titanic.
When you say "They" you mean the jews, right?
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