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re: If Brock Bowers or Rome Odunze are still on the board at 14, do you take one of them?
Posted on 4/6/24 at 10:32 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 4/6/24 at 10:32 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
So every NFL GM had to pick a player to steal from KC, they'd pick Juwon Taylor over Kelce? Note: The Chiefs signed Taylor. They didn't daft his predecessor, either. OTs can be acquired outside of the draft (or with non-1st draft capital). The 49ers didn't draft their LT, either. Bengals didn't draft either OT I don't believe. The Cowboys just let their LT hit FA. Dolphins signed theirs. Texans traded for their's.
Lol you’re confusing points. Im stating what position on a team is generally more important when building a team. OT is very important. Not lets nitpuck teamd and see where there us more talent at TE than OT. Other than the chiefs and niners, all the other teams- the OT is more important; theres an argument that Trent Williams is more important than Kittle.
Its funny you made my argument with me with those teams. Look at the QBs of those teams- Mahomes, Burrow, Purdy, Tua, Dak, and Stroud. Do you know what position is more important thab TE or OT- its QB.
Noe your next point they signed their OTs. They did but they werent cheap signings off the street. Juwan wasn’t cheap. Now lets look at the Saints our qb is Carr, we don’t have money to spend on OT and you want to us to draft a TE? While the other two more important positions are horrendous talent wise.
quote:
The point, which you apparently need to be spoon-fed, is that having an elite OT doesn't have a perfect correlation with winning. IF the elite can do it, then the mediocre can, too. You do understand this, right? It's not complicated. I can try to break it down into simpler words if you need me to.
You apparently like to change your points to better suit your ridiculous argument. I’ll break it down for you- unless you have an elite qb you WILL NOT WIN WITH A BAND AID AT OT even if you draft some highly touted TE. We dont have mahomes. We dont have the luxury of drafting a TE and ignoring the OT position. Its like you forget our QB is Carr. Bringing up teams with elite qbs in comparison is laughable.
2
Posted on 4/6/24 at 10:42 pm to Pels_Yaz
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Lol you’re confusing points
Naw
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Im stating what position on a team is generally more important when building a team
You're back tracking
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OT is very important.
Not always
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Not lets nitpuck teamd and see where there us more talent at TE than OT
You posted:
quote:
Its also why if you can ask any GM in regards to positions they would rate OT much more important than a TE.
That ENTIRELY depends on the OT and TE
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theres an argument that Trent Williams is more important than Kittle.
Sure. Trent Williams is a HOF LT
Note: the 49ers did not draft Trent Williams. Not only good, but HOF-level LTs who are the best LT in the NFL for multiple years can be acquired outside of the draft.
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Do you know what position is more important thab TE or OT- its QB.
We're not drafting a QB at 14
Nobody would support drafting Nix at 14
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Now lets look at the Saints our qb is Carr, we don’t have money to spend on OT and you want to us to draft a TE?
If that TE is Bowers? Yes.
I don't want the Saints drafting the player who is the biggest need for the year of the draft, especially when the comparable talent for that need is a couple tiers below other guys.
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While the other two more important positions are horrendous talent wise.
If we are mediocre, what does this matter?
What's the point of drafting a meh OT prospect b/c of a need in a single year?
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We dont have mahomes. We dont have the luxury of drafting a TE and ignoring the OT position.
We aren't a title team.
YOU WILL NOT WIN A TITLE WITH CARR AT QB. Our OTs are basically irrelevant. Why pass on the superior talent for the long term to get mediocre impact in the short term?
So we go 6-11 instead of 8-9 in 2024...who cares?
I'm looking at 2026 and beyond.
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Bringing up teams with elite qbs in comparison is laughable.
You say this after a paragraph-long rant about what it takes to win
Posted on 4/6/24 at 10:55 pm to SlowFlowPro
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Naw
Yaw
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You're back tracking
Naw
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Not always
True if your QB is Mahomes.
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That ENTIRELY depends on the OT and TE
Ok and the only example you gave me were the dynasty you gave me were the 2 time superbowl champion chiefs with mahomes as the QB. Go ahead provide more examples?
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Note: the 49ers did not draft Trent Williams. Not only good, but HOF-level LTs who are the best LT in the NFL for multiple years can be acquired outside of the draft.
How with what? Our salary cap is hell. Are there assets on this team that we have the luxury of trading to get a Trent Williams type of player? You assume its so easy to attain these players outsude the draft.
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We're not drafting a QB at 14 Nobody would support drafting Nix at 14
Not the point. Its that elite talent matters but so does what position that elite talent is at.
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I don't want the Saints drafting the player who is the biggest need for the year of the draft, especially when the comparable talent for that need is a couple tiers below other guys.
Again this isnt the NBA. Positions matter. Im not saying our TEs are loaded but a reasonable argument can be made that our TEs are in much better shape than the OT position. You may not want the Saints doing that but I can promise you thats what they will do.
quote:
f we are mediocre, what does this matter? What's the point of drafting a meh OT prospect b/c of a need in a single year?
Because for YOU next year doesn’t matter. For this organization next year matters a LOT. And generally mediocre teams care about winning the following year.
quote:
'm looking at 2026 and beyond.
Lol yeah the Saints aren’t doing that nor are a majority of these teams doing that when they draft. Coaches get fired in 2 years. Highly drafted QBs get traded in 2 years. This league is what can you do for me now and you’re looking at 2026 lol
quote:
You say this after a paragraph-long rant about what it takes to win
Because in your point how you think getting an elite TE prospect is important your just noting teams elite qbs as your examples. Its very laughable thats what your examples are.
This post was edited on 4/6/24 at 10:57 pm
Posted on 4/6/24 at 11:18 pm to LooseCannon22282
quote:
Nothing against Juwan Johnson
He makes Jared cook look like Tony Gonzalez
Our top two TEs are a converted WR and QB. Could you imagine a good team trotting these dudes out there? They would never
Posted on 4/6/24 at 11:24 pm to GynoSandberg
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Our top two TEs are a converted WR and QB
With a combined cap hit of an elite TE or top WR2
Posted on 4/6/24 at 11:25 pm to GynoSandberg
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Our top two TEs are a converted WR and QB.
Yeah I think this is overly simplistic. Its like saying yeah Antonio Gates and Jimmy Graham were just basketball players. Can you imagine guys who actually played football.
Juwan Johnson had 7 TDs and over 500 yards receiving in 2022- hes not some crap player. Taysom literally does everything for this team- any team in the league would love to have him.
Posted on 4/6/24 at 11:30 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
He makes Jared cook look like Tony Gonzalez
I was trying to be nice for a change but that's right man.
Cook sure did do a lot of good before that bone headed fumble in the Tampa Game part 3 whatever bullshite year that was. i'll say this though, he had Brees passing him the ball and not some overpriced QB who may just be going through the motions like Carr.
The thing is the offense has been hot garbage running the ball long enough. Alvin is getting old and what do we really know about Kendre? he can catch and run well when available. Let's hope he isn't another Saints medical staff mental mystery.
Posted on 4/7/24 at 12:49 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Note: The Chiefs signed Taylor. They didn't daft his predecessor, either. OTs can be acquired outside of the draft (or with non-1st draft capital). The 49ers didn't draft their LT, either. Bengals didn't draft either OT I don't believe. The Cowboys just let their LT hit FA. Dolphins signed theirs. Texans traded for their's.
And the Seahawks got Jimmy Graham from us when he was arguably the best TE in the NFL. Hell, the Vikes got your boy Hockensen from Detroit. Any non-QB position can potentially be filled outside the draft, some are just more expensive in salary as FA or in compensation in a trade. The Vikes gave up a 2nd for Hockensen, the Texans had to give up two 1sts and a 2nd for Laremy Tunsil and then had to pay him out the arse. Relative value always swings to OT.
Posted on 4/7/24 at 6:52 am to Handsome Pete
quote:
And the Seahawks got Jimmy Graham from us when he was arguably the best TE in the NFL. Hell, the Vikes got your boy Hockensen from Detroit. Any non-QB position can potentially be filled outside the draft,
I think you're confused. I'm not making that argument. He is.
I'm making a BPA argument based on not passing on inferior talent in the draft when it's our pick.
I'm not arguing that whichever position is BPA at our pick can't be acquired elsewhere.
Posted on 4/7/24 at 9:07 am to Pels_Yaz
It's overly true.
Posted on 4/7/24 at 9:25 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Other than the chiefs and niners, all the other teams- the OT is more important; theres an argument that Trent Williams is more important than Kittle.
Trent Williams is more important than Kittle. That’s a fact but Trent is also the best tackle in the league and the 9ers flooded with playmakers. The saints are not flooded with playmakers and there is no guarantee any of these tackles will be anywhere near as good as Trent. Highly unlikely honestly.
I am gonna put this into madden terms when it comes to this particular draft. Bowers is that 83 overall gem that goes in the first round. All tackles outside of Alt are in that 72-75 range and you are hoping one of them has star development where you can turn them into something. That is the difference we are looking at as far as prospects and why BPA is important.
This post was edited on 4/7/24 at 9:27 am
Posted on 4/7/24 at 9:46 am to Mpd31
quote:
I am gonna put this into madden terms when it comes to this particular draft. Bowers is that 83 overall gem that goes in the first round. All tackles outside of Alt are in that 72-75 range and you are hoping one of them has star development where you can turn them into something. That is the difference we are looking at as far as prospects and why BPA is important.
Im going to put this in common sense terms. NFL teams do not draft players or build teams like they are arm chair GMs playing madden football. And I’ll say this again on a NFL team sometimes according to your rankings that 75 range OT is desperately needed over that 83 TE. Especially when every draft has shown that the 83 TE never hits its true potential.
Posted on 4/7/24 at 10:03 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Yeah I think this is overly simplistic. Its like saying yeah Antonio Gates and Jimmy Graham were just basketball players. Can you imagine guys who actually played football.
No, it’s like saying yeah we have two TEs who converted from other positions who are not starting NFL calibre TEs. It would be like running Landon Young out at tackle as a starter and being content with it
And you do know Jimmy Graham was a TE at Miami?
quote:
Juwan Johnson had 7 TDs and over 500 yards receiving in 2022- hes not some crap player. Taysom literally does everything for this team- any team in the league would love to have him.
Buddy that’s what I’m saying. We have a backup TE and a gadget player getting snaps at TE. This isn’t even getting into Foster Moreau and whatever he does
Juwan Johnson played 50 games, 29 starts as has went over 50 yards 3 times. On a team starved for a pass catcher to step up
Posted on 4/7/24 at 10:29 am to LSUPilot07
It was said weeks ago there was going to be great players for us at 14 due to qbs stacked ahead of us and here we are. We all know Saints usually want to follow BPA. For all we know the Saints have their oline already on paper vs who looks available in the draft. But for the rest of us it looks weak on both lines and screams grab some help. If a day one LT is needed and is there at 14 you grab it. If LT is not needed or not there but a RT is? You try to trade down and get a starter later in first. And for the dline? Hate to say it but if you trade up into the top 6 in the second you can grab a DT next to Bresee like a Sweat, Robinson DE or Fiske. Both our lines were bottom of the barrel and I am a fix your lines first guy.
Posted on 4/7/24 at 10:31 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
No, it’s like saying yeah we have two TEs who converted from other positions who are not starting NFL calibre TEs. It would be like running Landon Young out at tackle as a starter and being content with it And you do know Jimmy Graham was a TE at Miami?
You do realize Jimmy Graham had 17 catches in his collegiate career at Miami right??
There are several TEs around the NFL that have converted from other NFL positions. Saying this is a bad thing- is just dumb.
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Buddy that’s what I’m saying. We have a backup TE and a gadget player getting snaps at TE. This isn’t even getting into Foster Moreau and whatever he does Juwan Johnson played 50 games, 29 starts as has went over 50 yards 3 times. On a team starved for a pass catcher to step up
Look Im not saying our TEs are amazing but acting like this is some horrendous group is also disingenuous.
In his limited snaps at TE, Taysom was ranked as the 7th best TE in 2023 according to PFF. Not to mention again everything else Taysom does.
Juwan had a bad year but in 2022 those were pretty solid stats for a TE. Theres no reason to think in a competent offense he cant get back to that.
There are lot of things wrong with this team but to act like the TE group is this untalented crap group is just a bad take.
This post was edited on 4/7/24 at 10:47 am
Posted on 4/7/24 at 10:33 am to goatmilker
quote:
But for the rest of us it looks weak on both lines and screams grab some help. If a day one LT is needed and is there at 14 you grab it. If LT is not needed or not there but a RT is? You try to trade down and get a starter later in first.
Absolutely agree.
Posted on 4/7/24 at 10:59 am to Pels_Yaz
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NFL teams do not draft players or build teams like they are arm chair GMs playing madden football.
His comparison was apt, he just used a way to condense the discussion down to numbers. GMs 100% do grade players and look at their potential.
quote:
nd I’ll say this again on a NFL team sometimes according to your rankings that 75 range OT is desperately needed o
Posted on 4/7/24 at 11:16 am to Pels_Yaz
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You do realize Jimmy Graham had 17 catches in his collegiate career at Miami right??
Yes this is called playing football
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There are several TEs around the NFL that have converted from other NFL positions. Saying this is a bad thing- is just dumb.
Your deductive reasoning is poor. I did not say it was a bad thing. It’s important to note the length they have went to not properly address the position the last few years
quote:
In his limited snaps at TE, Taysom was ranked as the 7th best TE in 2023 according to PFF. Not to mention again everything else Taysom does.
We are talking about Taysom hill as a tight end. This is a Saints issue not a Hill issue
quote:
uwan had a bad year but in 2022 those were pretty solid stats for a TE. Theres no reason to think in a competent offense he cant get back to that.
A solid 2nd option at best, sure
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There are lot of things wrong with this team but to act like the TE group is this untalented crap group is just a bad take.
They are not NFL starters. There are singular players who out produced our 3 guys. Darren Waller had 100 catch, 1100 yard seaosns with Carr. You are just groomed to think this is an adequate TE room bc we haven’t had a good one in a few years
Posted on 4/7/24 at 11:33 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
But for the rest of us it looks weak on both lines and screams grab some help. If a day one LT is needed and is there at 14 you grab it. If LT is not needed or not there but a RT is? You try to trade down and get a starter later in first.
The only bonafide day 1 starting LT is Alt who will be gone.
Posted on 4/7/24 at 11:37 am to GynoSandberg
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Yes this is called playing football
And you realize he played a lot more basketball than football in college right? Most players who only have 17 catches in their collegiate career dont get drafted but Jimmy did.
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Your deductive reasoning is poor. I did not say it was a bad thing. It’s important to note the length they have went to not properly address the position the last few years
I mean we can do that for a lot of positions on this team. Thats why we’re not a good football team.
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We are talking about Taysom hill as a tight end. This is a Saints issue not a Hill issue
Yes and I just told you his rank as a TE according to PFF. Meaning there is potential there if we used him more at the position.
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A solid 2nd option at best, sure
So a TE that had over 500 yards receiving and 7 TDs in a season is a solid second option for you?
Sure- your standards not mine.
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They are not NFL starters. There are singular players who out produced our 3 guys. Darren Waller had 100 catch, 1100 yard seaosns with Carr. You are just groomed to think this is an adequate TE room bc we haven’t had a good one in a few years
And you don’t think having an offense or offense coordinator scheme and use the TE properly has nothing to do with Waller having those seasons? I think your groomed to think that an off coordinator or scheme has nothing to do with how a TE produces.
By the way Waller was a drug addict who was basically out of the league when he went to the raiders. There wasn’t any crazy investment on him. Any team could have signed him for cheap.
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