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re: Zach Lowe & Kevin Pelton can't imagine a world where Trey isn't starting next year
Posted on 4/24/24 at 2:58 pm to TeddyPadillac
Posted on 4/24/24 at 2:58 pm to TeddyPadillac
If you trade BI and move Trey into the starting lineup along with CJ, as well as the assumption that Hawkins will be in the rotation, you really don't need a 5 that can shoot 3s.
1
Posted on 4/24/24 at 3:14 pm to shel311
quote:
Disagree, I think we absolutely can trade BI and get better even if a legit #2 isn't coming back.
I know all of you think this, and maybe we win more regular season games, but we aren't winning shite in the playoffs with CJ as our #2, and i love CJ. CJ is not on Murray's level.
quote:
I do think we'd immediately be better with Allen as opposed to BI.
Pels Talk does think that. No one else does.
quote:
While true, he's darn near as good as BI as the #2 so there's not really much #2 drop off.
getting #2 opportunities as the #3 guy and doing well, is not the same as being the actual #2 guy. Being the #2 guy on our team means being guarded by the best perimeter defender on the opposing team. Be ready for a bunch of step back fadeaway mid range shots.
quote:
The thing is, BI isn't a #2 either. So we'd be getting rid of a non #2 to have another non #2 play #2 but upgrading a position of need.
and Jarrett Allen makes our defense what, marginally better? Did we have a bad defense? and no i'm not saying Allen is only marginally better defensively than JV. He's obviously a lot better, but we don't have a defensive problem. We can't score in the clutch. Allen does nothing to help with that.
Does he make our offense better? Is Zion going to have more room to operate b/c Allen is providing spacing? Is he going to be responsible for more offensive rebounds than JV?
We had a top 10 offense and defense. Of course we can get better, but where we need to get better is a very obvious answer, and it's in the clutch, and Jarrett Allen does nothing for that.
WHy are we fixing an issue that isnt' a big issue for us, and ignoring the fact that we were the worst finishing team in the league? 0 wins when trailing entering the 4th quarter and the 2nd worse NetRtg in the clutch, sorry, 6th worse.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 3:24 pm to shel311
quote:
If you trade BI and move Trey into the starting lineup along with CJ, as well as the assumption that Hawkins will be in the rotation, you really don't need a 5 that can shoot 3s.
Is that what makes Milwaukee successful? having 2 guys on the court that can't shoot? No they have two 5's that can shoot.
Is that what makes Denver successful? putting two guys out there that can't shoot? No, AG is the only guy on their team that can't shoot 3's.
Is that why Boston looks like they are goign to ease into a championship with their two centers that shoot over 38% from 3 launching 9 of them a game between the two of them?
What championship team trots out 2 guys that are going to play 30mpg and be in the closing lineup that dont' shoot 3's? It's fine if Zion isnt' going to shoot 3's. But if he's not, then we have to have a 5 that will.
Show me a championship team that had a closing lineup with 2 guys that literally don't shoot 3's. Give me an example of a team that would be comprised similarly to what you are suggesting that was successful winning a championship. We are trying to win a championship right?
Posted on 4/24/24 at 3:55 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:I know you and I are just going back and forth in repeat at this point, but the exact same thing applies to BI. I'd rather, in this hypothetical, CJ+Jarrett Allen than just BI, by far.
I know all of you think this, and maybe we win more regular season games, but we aren't winning shite in the playoffs with CJ as our #2, and i love CJ. CJ is not on Murray's level.
quote:Oh, this is definitely not true. Pels Twitter, and not just the twitter eggs. Most of the beat writers or just those that have followers and are known a bit more are virtually all ready to move BI and I'd bet feel the same. Same goes with other Pels communities I've kept tabs on.
Pels Talk does think that. No one else does.
Is it everyone? Nah. Is it way more than Pels Talk and I'd argue pretty darn close to the majority opinion? Yep.
quote:CJ has been the #2 for, what, about 75% of the past 2 seasons? He's been the #2 way more, probably 3x as much, than he's been the #3 since he's become a Pet, so I don't think this logic is correct.
getting #2 opportunities as the #3 guy and doing well, is not the same as being the actual #2 guy. Being the #2 guy on our team means being guarded by the best perimeter defender on the opposing team. Be ready for a bunch of step back fadeaway mid range shots.
quote:Why can he only make it marginally better?
and Jarrett Allen makes our defense what, marginally better?
quote:Not the right question. The right question is, do you think this defense was so good that it doesn't have any room for improvement?
Did we have a bad defense?
quote:I'd answer that in 2 ways. Adding Allen to this team for BI does not really make us worse in the clutch. CJ slots in for BI, and he's been better in the clutch than BI this season. But it also doesn't mean we can't make other moves to add scorers. Also, I don't know what the numbers are for this season, but i'd argue getting Trey in the starting lineup and giving CJ/Trey/Zion an entire season to gel, that alone can help us in the clutch.
We had a top 10 offense and defense. Of course we can get better, but where we need to get better is a very obvious answer, and it's in the clutch, and Jarrett Allen does nothing for that.
WHy are we fixing an issue that isnt' a big issue for us, and ignoring the fact that we were the worst finishing team in the league? 0 wins when trailing entering the 4th quarter and the 2nd worse NetRtg in the clutch, sorry, 6th worse.
To further that last statement above, I saw something on Twitter that showed over the last month or so, some time around when BI went out, we were the 9th rated clutch team, and the offense was I think 14th. Small sample size sure, but it showed at least 1.5 months worth of us getting even better in the clutch with Trey in place of BI and playing through Zion and CJ secondarily.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 4:03 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:There is literally no realistic move we can make that will have us win a title next season.
We are trying to win a championship right?
It's about steps to get closer to that goal.
But you assert that my suggestions give us a non shooting 5 and thus zero chance to win title, and that has a strong insinuation that if it were done your way and we got a 5 who can hit a 3 then we can win a title next season. I can confidently say, we aren't winning a title next season in either scenario.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 4:07 pm to shel311
If I may make a confession re: Teddy...
When Teddy is responding to others with those loooooong Teddy posts, I usually think, "frick Teddy, slow it down, I ain't reading all that"
But when Teddy replies to me with the same looooon posts, I'm like "Love this back and forth with Teddy, this is what Pels Talk is all about"
When Teddy is responding to others with those loooooong Teddy posts, I usually think, "frick Teddy, slow it down, I ain't reading all that"
But when Teddy replies to me with the same looooon posts, I'm like "Love this back and forth with Teddy, this is what Pels Talk is all about"
Posted on 4/24/24 at 4:14 pm to TeddyPadillac
2022 warriors, I think, you could say they had 2 closing minutes players that couldn’t shoot the three in Draymond and Looney.
Dwight and AD in 2020 too
Dwight and AD in 2020 too
Posted on 4/24/24 at 4:14 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
We had a top 10 offense and defense. Of course we can get better, but where we need to get better is a very obvious answer, and it's in the clutch, and Jarrett Allen does nothing for that.
WHy are we fixing an issue that isnt' a big issue for us, and ignoring the fact that we were the worst finishing team in the league? 0 wins when trailing entering the 4th quarter and the 2nd worse NetRtg in the clutch, sorry, 6th worse.
I agree. I am of the mindset that we need additional bigs, but I have no interest in trading BI where the main piece coming back is a big. KAT may be the exception, his salary is scary for team building purposes and he seems kind of like a bitch, but at least he fits with spacing, rebounding, and playmaking that could unlock Zion.
I think Allen would mostly bomb here. He would make our defense better, but not like the Wolves. On offense, he would be worse than Larry. He needs to run PnR with a guard like Mitchell to maxmimize his impact. Zion is not a great PnR operator and Allen in the dunker's spot won't open things up for Zion.
The obvious Ingram trade candidates of similar talent are: Murray, KAT, and Garland.
Another option is high pick and role players/prospect package from Detroit or Charlotte which likely would turn into a 3 teamer.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 4:18 pm to shel311
quote:
CJ slots in for BI, and he's been better in the clutch than BI this season
I still think the move we should make is BI for Trae Young, even though I know Griff/Trajan wouldn’t make that move.
Even if we get Trae and then send Nance and salary to Cleveland for Allen we would be WORLDS better than we are now IMO.
Trae gives you a legitimate #2 next to Zion where even if you add another 5 that’s not a shooter, Trae is a natural at the 3 point line and wouldn’t have guys in the paint waiting for him to shoot a midrange.
Oh, and he also maybe able to show Zion how to bait the refs into actually calling fouls
Posted on 4/24/24 at 4:55 pm to shel311
quote:
If I may make a confession re: Teddy...
I have a confession to make, I just don’t read the super long winded posts. Ain’t nobody got time for that shite
Posted on 4/24/24 at 7:35 pm to shel311
quote:
There is literally no realistic move we can make that will have us win a title next season.
We should make a real attempt next season, even if the odds are low. Then, we'll have the ability to be a serious contender two years from now.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 7:37 pm to shel311
quote:
There is literally no realistic move we can make that will have us win a title next season.
Find a way to make Zion lose even more weight and come into the season fully in shape. Best move in my opinion towards a title.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 11:25 pm to TeddyPadillac
Pels should've traded Ingram for dame Lillard.
Him and zion would be perfect together.
Him and zion would be perfect together.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 11:27 pm to Chalkywhite84
quote:Dame/CJ/Zion is certainly better than BI/CJ/Zion but the issue is that's not a championship core which in its own isn't a deal breaker, but you're also stuck with Dame for 4 years and $50-60 mil or whatever it is, so all flexibility is gone. Can't have both.
Pels should've traded Ingram for dame Lillard.
Him and zion would be perfect together.
This post was edited on 4/24/24 at 11:28 pm
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