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re: BI and Willie had an exchange during Game 2 according to Shams
Posted on 5/8/24 at 6:05 pm to AboveTheRim
Posted on 5/8/24 at 6:05 pm to AboveTheRim
Guys, he shot 3 a game. 3!!! He should be shooting that many on the break. He shot 6 his first two seasons with us. YES, that was a choice.
1
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:36 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
A big part of the problem with his fit here is he was handed the keys to the team when Jrue left, and with Zion's spotty availability/fitness, they've needed him to run the offense a lot. If he gets traded to a team where it's known from the start he's not the guy, I think you'll see a different Ingram that can take 6+ 3s a game like he did when he first got here. Look at what Dejounte Murray did in Atlanta. Ingram will adjust too when it's clear he isn't the #1 option.
I'm glad you're finally starting to speak on this, too. People have their opinions of me and will refuse even the simplest of logic from me because it doesn't support their instant emotions. To me, CJ is he piece causing problems. He is our point guard who can't handle lead guard duties when Zion goes down, so BI has ended up with a constantly changing role.
BI sucked in the playoffs, but there is a lot of context to that. At this point, it's clear he isn't carrying a team. That said, I really don't think we will find a more talented #2 to fit next to Zion. You may find a better fit, but it's likely a lesser talent. I think the relationship is too far gone, though.
And that brings me to Willie. If anyone should get the value for moving away from Borrego ball, it's the coach who decided to do just that. In addition, he alienated 2 of our 4 best players and basically put Griffin in a bad spot in regards to trade leverage. Your star doesn't need to demand a trade when your coach drives a wedge right down the middle of the locker room. Every GM in the league knows he wants out now. Frankly, I like Willie, and his family are really nice, genuine people, but this team better start out damn strong next year or he will lose the locker room (assuming he hasn't already).
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:40 pm to AboveTheRim
quote:
It’s a comfort and confidence thing for BI. Most of his shots come off the dribble and he like to get to his spots where he’s confident he can make shots …the 3pt line is that spot
It's also a role thing. He was asked for large stretches to play point in Willie's plodding offense. That means he spends his effort probing the paint and dishing to cutters and open shooters. That means he isn't standing there waiting for open catch-and-shoot opportunities. Him putting up more 3s will likely reduce assist opportunities as much as it reduces middies, because it doesn't demand the defense to help vertically.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 9:04 pm to Jester
quote:
It's also a role thing. He was asked for large stretches to play point in Willie's plodding offense. That means he spends his effort probing the paint and dishing to cutters and open shooters. That means he isn't standing there waiting for open catch-and-shoot opportunities. Him putting up more 3s will likely reduce assist opportunities as much as it reduces middies, because it doesn't demand the defense to help vertically.
Stop it. You’re basically saying because he has the ball more he doesn’t have the opportunities to shoot more 3s? I’m sorry the excuses are getting a little silly now.
A lot of the BI supporters are just hanging on to what he said to the media at the end of the season. Its a bunch of hogwash honestly.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 9:09 pm to Jester
quote:
I'm glad you're finally starting to speak on this, too. People have their opinions of me and will refuse even the simplest of logic from me because it doesn't support their instant emotions. To me, CJ is he piece causing problems. He is our point guard who can't handle lead guard duties when Zion goes down, so BI has ended up with a constantly changing role. BI sucked in the playoffs, but there is a lot of context to that. At this point, it's clear he isn't carrying a team. That said, I really don't think we will find a more talented #2 to fit next to Zion. You may find a better fit, but it's likely a lesser talent. I think the relationship is too far gone, though. And that brings me to Willie. If anyone should get the value for moving away from Borrego ball, it's the coach who decided to do just that. In addition, he alienated 2 of our 4 best players and basically put Griffin in a bad spot in regards to trade leverage. Your star doesn't need to demand a trade when your coach drives a wedge right down the middle of the locker room. Every GM in the league knows he wants out now. Frankly, I like Willie, and his family are really nice, genuine people, but this team better start out damn strong next year or he will lose the locker room (assuming he hasn't already).
It was reported that BI hated Borrego ball. So lets blame CJ and Willie for BI for sucking. It’s just this constant blame game for BI and those who support him. Everyone else’s fault but BI. I mean heck the only reason we got Willie is because BI didn’t want SVG either.
Posted on 5/9/24 at 8:55 am to Jester
quote:
That said, I really don't think we will find a more talented #2 to fit next to Zion. You may find a better fit, but it's likely a lesser talent. I think the relationship is too far gone, though.
I agree.
I doubt we get back someone better than BI, although they may fit better, and i'm ok with that. BI is better than Dejounte Murray, but i think it's easy to see that we might be better if we swapped them out, and i think ATL would be better as well.
and i do think there's issues that happened to close the season that may be beyond fixing and BI doesn't want to be here anymore, and we also don't want him here anymore.
Posted on 5/9/24 at 9:20 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
i do think there's issues that happened to close the season that may be beyond fixing and BI doesn't want to be here anymore, and we also don't want him here anymore.
We always seem to over estimate the personal fractures, but I do think it's reasonable to guess that BI doesn't want to become 70% Trey/CJ, 30% BI, which is what we kind of need him to be when Zion is healthy and fit.
This post was edited on 5/9/24 at 9:22 am
Posted on 5/9/24 at 9:38 am to TigerinATL
His attitude on the bench in the last Lakers game, coupled with his piss poor effort in the playoffs would suggest he wasn't happy about something, and he handled it like a baby.
Posted on 5/9/24 at 10:15 am to Jester
quote:
That means he spends his effort probing the paint
I agree with you about the lack of a point guard and CJ's limitations. I agree with you regarding Willie's WTF offense. But, Ingram spends literally zero effort probing the paint. And while he makes some nice passes to cutters, he fails to see the cutter, or ignores the cutter, the vast majority of the time.
The only way Ingram was going to maximize this team was to become a point guard looking to facilitate first, while also being a willing spot up shooter. He doesn't want to do either of those things. Because of this, he has more value to this team as a trade asset then he does as a player.
This post was edited on 5/9/24 at 10:16 am
Posted on 5/9/24 at 10:52 am to mhasen1
quote:
The only way Ingram was going to maximize this team was to become a point guard looking to facilitate first, while also being a willing spot up shooter.
But then Zion gets healthy, loses 30 pounds and suddenly BI needs to become a 3 and D wing. But wait, Zion just injured a finger and will be out for 2 weeks. Ingram, go be a point guard again!
BI does NOT need to be a PG. He needs to be a scorer. That's why we need a point guard and not another scorer who can only guard point guards. The biggest thing this team needs is consistent health and effort from Zion. Without that, any roster built around Zion is destined to fail.
Posted on 5/9/24 at 10:53 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
It was reported that BI hated Borrego ball.
By who? Shel?
Posted on 5/9/24 at 10:54 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Stop it. You’re basically saying because he has the ball more he doesn’t have the opportunities to shoot more 3s? I’m sorry the excuses are getting a little silly now.
Stick to checkers, boy. The adults are playing chess.
Posted on 5/9/24 at 11:03 am to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
By who?
Every local guy who covers this team has said some version of Ingram did not like what Borrego wanted to install. Many of them have said that the team had to abandon Borrego ball before Christmas because Ingram refused to play within it's constructs. Christian Clark has written about it in articles, Will Guillory and Jake Madison have openly discussed it on podcasts. It is well known that BI has had multiple issues with the offense since he has been here and the team has always given in. That is the biggest problem. This organization has made decisions based on the desires of a non superstar level player.
Posted on 5/9/24 at 11:18 am to ThePistol
quote:
Every local guy who covers this team has said some version of Ingram did not like what Borrego wanted to install. Many of them have said that the team had to abandon Borrego ball before Christmas because Ingram refused to play within it's constructs. Christian Clark has written about it in articles, Will Guillory and Jake Madison have openly discussed it on podcasts. It is well known that BI has had multiple issues with the offense since he has been here and the team has always given in. That is the biggest problem. This organization has made decisions based on the desires of a non superstar level player.
Bi sounds like a baby the more this stuff comes out.
I get wanting the ball but changing the entire system a month or two into the season is diva behavior.
Posted on 5/9/24 at 11:30 am to Pels_Yaz
BI and Willie had an exchange during Game 2 according to Shams
Selfish players who constantly shoot the ball and there is no pecking order. I can name two right off the bat. Willie is scared to anything to them.
Selfish players who constantly shoot the ball and there is no pecking order. I can name two right off the bat. Willie is scared to anything to them.
Posted on 5/9/24 at 12:02 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:Basically, every Pels beat writer know and many have also discussed this.
By who? Shel?
This is the part where you say it's still false because no one believes the Pels beat writers and instead we should believe the anonymous message board poster who swears it's not true..
You'll be the last one to know, we'll be waiting for you, you're only about 7 months behind right now, but I have faith in you, you'll get there!
Just wait til you put it all together and the lightbulb goes off and you realize why Zion gave that cryptic presser about "taking a back seat" and "trying his best to buy in."
This post was edited on 5/9/24 at 12:04 pm
Posted on 5/9/24 at 12:05 pm to ThePistol
quote:And Shamit and Pro Pels Talk
Every local guy who covers this team has said some version of Ingram did not like what Borrego wanted to install. Many of them have said that the team had to abandon Borrego ball before Christmas because Ingram refused to play within it's constructs. Christian Clark has written about it in articles, Will Guillory and Jake Madison have openly discussed it on podcasts.
But that's not enough, that poster needs more proof, they could ALL be lying to you!!!
Posted on 5/9/24 at 12:55 pm to shel311
quote:
And Shamit and Pro Pels Talk
But that's not enough, that poster needs more proof, they could ALL be lying to you!!!
Simmer down, Shel. I dedicate literally zero of my time reading local sports writers or listening to local podcasters. I can't begin to describe to you how little their opinions and "sources" matter to me. 
Posted on 5/9/24 at 12:58 pm to shel311
quote:
You'll be the last one to know, we'll be waiting for you, you're only about 7 months behind right now, but I have faith in you, you'll get there!
Only time will tell who is right. I genuinely hope you are, because you're about to get your way.
Posted on 5/9/24 at 1:33 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
BI basically admitted to being difficult during his exit interview. He said “I need to be easier for the coaches” or something to that effect. It’s nice to hear players admit they were wrong, but BI essentially said he was hard to work with this year.
I’ve been just about his #1 fan, but it’s time to move on. I feel like his apology is only because he wants the max contract and will lose potential money if he trade him.
Here’s a stat I’d like to see: What players did not take catch and shoot 3s when they were open the most? My guess is BI would be amongst the highest in the league. Another troubling stat, this one from Boot Krewe Media - Zion had more assists to Herb Jones than BI. Herb took 588 shots, while BI took 1017 shots. That means despite BI taking almost twice as many shots as Herb, he had less made shots from Zion assists than Herb. That’s not lack of opportunity or having to play PG, that’s just pure stubbornness and not doing what’s best for the team.
I will always appreciate BI for being the first young all star that actually liked Nola and wanted to stay here, but it’s time for him to go.
I’ve been just about his #1 fan, but it’s time to move on. I feel like his apology is only because he wants the max contract and will lose potential money if he trade him.
Here’s a stat I’d like to see: What players did not take catch and shoot 3s when they were open the most? My guess is BI would be amongst the highest in the league. Another troubling stat, this one from Boot Krewe Media - Zion had more assists to Herb Jones than BI. Herb took 588 shots, while BI took 1017 shots. That means despite BI taking almost twice as many shots as Herb, he had less made shots from Zion assists than Herb. That’s not lack of opportunity or having to play PG, that’s just pure stubbornness and not doing what’s best for the team.
I will always appreciate BI for being the first young all star that actually liked Nola and wanted to stay here, but it’s time for him to go.
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