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re: BI and Willie had an exchange during Game 2 according to Shams
Posted on 5/8/24 at 12:00 pm to Pistol44
Posted on 5/8/24 at 12:00 pm to Pistol44
quote:
If you really dont think he’s a big reason for Pels increasing wins each year, I don’t know what more to say.
You’re framing it more as BI is the major reason for those wins- I think thats a false narrative. There are ton of other big reasons we have those wins as well- Herb defense/shooting, Zion, CJ, Trey, Jonas, naji/jose etc. Is a BI part of that? Absolutely. But to frame it as “hes the big reason we increased our wins” and then to act like he has no accountability for our failures and limited ceiling is a silly take.
Its like because he helps increase our wins each year, he cant be held accountable for the teams failures. Its the exact garbage Griffin and Willie were doing this year until Willie had enough. Its time to stop babying these players and expect more from these players and this team.
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Posted on 5/8/24 at 12:05 pm to Pistol44
quote:
If you really dont think he’s a big reason for Pels increasing wins each year, I don’t know what more to say.
The main reason the Pels won more games each year is Zion going from none to 29 to 72 games played.
Ingram is a winning player for us, but it's minimal impact compared to z
Posted on 5/8/24 at 12:17 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:
Exactly why i have a feeling BI's trade value is going to be shockingly low.
You have to fit your style around BI
I disagree with this. A big part of the problem with his fit here is he was handed the keys to the team when Jrue left, and with Zion's spotty availability/fitness, they've needed him to run the offense a lot. If he gets traded to a team where it's known from the start he's not the guy, I think you'll see a different Ingram that can take 6+ 3s a game like he did when he first got here. Look at what Dejounte Murray did in Atlanta. Ingram will adjust too when it's clear he isn't the #1 option.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 12:34 pm to whatiknowsofar
Brandon Ingram's career record in games played with the Pels is 144-143, so technically it is a winning record for a .501 winning percentage. For comparison, Zion is 99-85 in his career for a .538 winning percentage. That would be about 10 more wins for zion over the same amount of games BI has played.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 12:45 pm to ThePistol
quote:
That would be about 10 more wins for zion over the same amount of games BI has played.
Im not even sure this helps your argument. BI has played 287 games and is barely by one game over .500.
Meanwhile Zion has played in only 184 games (about 100 less than BI) and is already 14 games over .500.
Now you’re projecting Zion’s wins forward to matchup with BI- which is silly because he may win a lot more or even lose more to show that BI and Zion aren’t that far apart??! What are you trying to argue here?
Posted on 5/8/24 at 12:48 pm to Pistol44
quote:You think BI has gotten better in each of the last 3 seasons?
For sure a real big reason
Posted on 5/8/24 at 12:49 pm to TigerinATL
quote:This
BI doesn't need to be traded because he's a bad player, he needs to be traded because his natural style is not a fit with how the team needs to play to maximize what they are doing.
quote:And this
If you could guarantee me that a heart to heart between the brain trust and BI would have Ingram come in and make similar sacrifices and changes like we saw from CJ
In a magical world where BI could change his shot profile and play like I think he should play AND accept his role as the #2 option, I would gladly keep him around and think he would do well as a #2.
But in the real world, it's pretty obvious he won't do either of those things.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 12:52 pm to Pistol44
quote:In order to increase wins, that would insinuate he's getting better and better. I don't see how you increase wins otherwise, if you get worse or do not get better.
If you really dont think he’s a big reason for Pels increasing wins each year, I don’t know what more to say.
95% of the reason we have gone from 36 to 42 to 49 wins is Zion. SO by default, BI or anyone else, none of them have been a "big" reason for the improvement. That's almost all because of ZIon going from 0 to 29 to 69 games played, and much smaller reasons are CJ, BI and improvements from other dudes.
This post was edited on 5/8/24 at 12:54 pm
Posted on 5/8/24 at 1:04 pm to ThePistol
quote:2 years is a pretty large sample size.
Brandon Ingram's career record in games played with the Pels is 144-143, so technically it is a winning record for a .501 winning percentage. For comparison, Zion is 99-85 in his career for a .538 winning percentage. That would be about 10 more wins for zion over the same amount of games BI has played.
In the last 2 seasons, BI has played 109 games and he has missed 55 games. Again, 2 representative sample sizes.
Over these past 2 season:
When BI plays, we are the equivalent of a 46 win team.
When BI does not play, we are the equivalent of a 45 win team.
Is that really having THAT much of an effect on winning? Now...same question but from the perspective that he's on a max contract...
Posted on 5/8/24 at 1:20 pm to shel311
I think the team needs to lean heavily into "Zion is the Captain now." Which includes all of the FO and coaching staff. Anyone who doubts needs to be let go ASAP.
Zion has to understand that we sink or swim with him and his decisions. There are no more safety nets. You are the guy.
Zion has to understand that we sink or swim with him and his decisions. There are no more safety nets. You are the guy.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 2:23 pm to Pels_Yaz
I wasn’t arguing anything. I saw a few people say that BI was a huge contributor to winning. I just supplied the stats to show exactly how much he has won here. I added the Zion stats for context.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 4:35 pm to shel311
You have an art for overcomplication for sure. Sorted season and wins in ascending order:
2019 season - 30 wins
2020 season - 31 wins
2021 season - 36 wins
2022 season - 42 wins
2023 season - 49 wins
It confuses you about teams.
2019 season - 30 wins
2020 season - 31 wins
2021 season - 36 wins
2022 season - 42 wins
2023 season - 49 wins
It confuses you about teams.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 4:39 pm to Pistol44
That's pretty fricking awful to be honest.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 4:46 pm to shel311
quote:
You think BI has gotten better in each of the last 3 seasons?
For sure and argue that he's not finished. He's a better playmaker and that has contributed to winning.
but it still goes up
Posted on 5/8/24 at 4:55 pm to Pistol44
The thing I can’t get past with BI, beyond all the rumors, fit, coaching deficiencies, is the fact that the team asked/told him to shoot more threes and he refused. Even if we ignored everything else, said all the rumors were lies etc, we know for a fact, the team stated publicly they wanted BI to shoot more threes, and we saw him in games refuse. He actually shot less threes this season. That to me was actively betraying this team. He intentionally and actively harmed what we were trying to do as a team IMO, and something that was so obviously for the better of the team and its results. That’s hard to look past and give a trillion dollars to.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 5:09 pm to PELsu
quote:
He actually shot less threes this season
I was with you until the sentence after this. The 3 ball is a concern, but lot of this is getting him the ball in spots to shoot and Pels ball distribution behind BI and Z was not very good. Don't think its anything nefarious.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 5:32 pm to Pistol44
quote:
was with you until the sentence after this. The 3 ball is a concern, but lot of this is getting him the ball in spots to shoot and Pels ball distribution behind BI and Z was not very good. Don't think its anything nefarious.
It was absolutely a choice that BI made to not take many 3s. He routinely passed up open 3s to dribble into a middy.
CJ, herb, and Trey were all able to increase their volume but BI couldn’t? That’s bullshite.
He didn’t shoot 3s because he didn’t want to. Plain and simple. He wants to play his way and live in the midrange so that’s what he did
Posted on 5/8/24 at 6:01 pm to PELsu
I think this is an overreaction .
You think he was actually purposely sabotaging the team?
It’s a comfort and confidence thing for BI. Most of his shots come off the dribble and he like to get to his spots where he’s confident he can make shots …the 3pt line is that spot .
We all agree the fit is far from ideal but the board has gone to far in the BI sucks and is a bad teammate .
You think he was actually purposely sabotaging the team?
It’s a comfort and confidence thing for BI. Most of his shots come off the dribble and he like to get to his spots where he’s confident he can make shots …the 3pt line is that spot .
We all agree the fit is far from ideal but the board has gone to far in the BI sucks and is a bad teammate .
Posted on 5/8/24 at 6:04 pm to AboveTheRim
quote:
I think this is an overreaction . You think he was actually purposely sabotaging the team?
Obviously he wasn’t purposely trying to sabotage the team but he was purposely not listening to coaches and doing what he individually thinks is best for him and not whats best for the team. He was being selfish.
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