re: Shogun - Official Series Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

He was also in Midway:



And Battleship

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He's the only Japanese character on the show that views his life the way the West does (worth preserving at all costs) vs. the other Japanese characters on the show.

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Which is probably why the Anjin-San can relate to him, in spite of him murdering his shipmate.

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Which is probably why the Anjin-San can relate to him, in spite of him murdering his shipmate.

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I'm re-reading the novel. (read it back in college). In the book you get so much more inner dialogue of what people are thinking.

Blackthorn is definitely still planning on killing him at first chance and hasn't forgotten any of what was done to him and his men.

And Yabu has GREAT inner dialogue. He's definitely an opportunist and ruthless to no end. The actor is killing it as him.

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In the book you get so much more inner dialogue of what people are thinking.

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You also get so much more relationship development, especially Mariko very gradually becoming close to Blackthorn. The series did not have enough money to stretch this out to 20 episodes as the novel really needs as you can see through the crap CGI. Great series nonetheless.

End of the series unless something changes.

Generally, I find the original miniseries to hold up extremely well; as good as this show on many accounts, often better.

Yabu is one of the major exceptions. He was not done poorly in the original, but you would despise him the entire time. In this, Yabushige (I had instantly noticed the slight change of name) is, as people pointed out, actually a likeable guy.
Based on the book (not wanting to spoil anything), I think it's going to be a very good and memorable episode as far as Yabu is concerned.

Welp.......


I have to say, I'm disappointed.


Like I've said before in this thread, I read the book back in college. But that was 30 years ago and I don't remember it in detail. I'm re-reading it now but only maybe 15% done.

But what I do remember, and am seeing in the re-read, is that the book focuses primarily on Blackthorn's story, but also delves fairly deeply in to all of the other character's stories as well. Clavell writes from their perspectives, and with their inner dialogues.

The show has focused mostly on Blackthorn, but also shown the other perspectives. And done so fairly, not really favoring any one other character.

But then this last episode comes along and speed runs through a huge chunk of the final act through exposition and a fast forward. And misses telling a lot of the story and plot (the way I remember it).

We get Toronada describing to Yabu what will happen to all of the chess pieces he's been playing for generations, and although in the book it's clearly shown how intricate and genius it all is, I think it falls flat here.

II'd like to have had Ochiba No Kata's (mother to the heir) inner dialogue when she decides to betray Yoshido.

Same with Blackthorn. His confession to Toranada seemed confusing. His change of heart and desire to die. Why? Show me.

What I took away from the final episode was that ALL of this was MAINLY due to the death/sacrafice of Mariko. NOT the huge mosaic of pieces in motion that Toranado has been moving for 50 years. JUST that Mariko was blown up.

Don't get me wrong, I love her character. BUT it seems to me like they elevated her importance to be the "main character" in this last episode. MAybe I'm just overly burned out on Hollywood's "STRONG INDEPENDANT FEMALE CHARACTER and THE MESSAGE due to the complete over saturation as of late. But if I remember the book, her death although meaningful and impactful, was NOT the check mate play that it was in the show.

And I know a lot here were expecting a huge revenge fueled John Wick style killing spree from Toranado, Bunto, and Blackthorn. But the beauty of the book is that Toranado was able to "win" the war without massive bloodshed and civil war. He won through guile and merciless game play. He won through Kobayashi Maru. Truly the Japanese way. The way a true Shogun would.


I'm going to re-watch the series with my wife, and hopefully my opinion changes.

I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t underwhelmed.

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We know that ultimately Blackthorn beats Toranaga and gets home.

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Those visions were not real. Case in point he return the rosary to the sea. In his dream, he was an old man with the rosary still with him. As he released the rosary he also released his dream of returning home.

Yep.

In the book Blackthorn never makes it home. Toranada strings him along the whole time.

In the show it was a dream within a dream. The episode title gives it away.